Would I stand a chance?
 

Ok,
Here's the deal. I am at 1350 TT, with only 50 multi. 120 instrument, 300 night, 400 x/c, 800 as a CFI.
I have my Commercial Multi with a CFI-I. I have my 1st class medical.

But, there's a catch.

6 years ago I was burned 85% in a Baron crash. Got trapped in freezing rain, stalled while we tried to make a circling approach after shooting a VOR approach. We couldn't make the first attempt because the ice build up on the window was too thick, the alchohol had zero effect.

Legally, I was a non-flying pilot, just observing. But beleive me I was helping anyway I could.

My left hand is fine, my right hand, eh, not so much.

I had my entire pinky, and all my other fingers on that right hand, amputated all the way down to the first knuckle. Basicly it makes my right hand a creepy pincher. But it works.

I'm back CFI'ing in all kinds of airplanes, and even have been flying in an few multi's and the occasional turbine from the right seat. When I'm flying an aircraft with a thick yoke that I can't pinch with my right hand, I cup it from behind pretty tight. I wear a custom made batting glove that gives me extra grip.

I used to think the airlines were nothing but a wet dream since the accident. But now that I've been flying more and more, I got the bug big time. And then, I had to go read about this guy:

http://www.cosmeticsurgery.com/articles/archive/an~149/

http://www.plasticsurgery.org/media/...05-Matthew.cfm

Then I read about a female with her right arm amputed who flies cargo in a C-208. I quickly realized, what the hell am I hiding behind. If they can do it, so can I.

I'm curious, from you out there in the regional world, what kind of chance in hell do I have.

I can still turn knobs and switches just fine with my right hand. Throttles usually take 10 minutes for me to adapt to, and once I know how to do it, it's never an issue.

The ONLY thing I'm fretting about is thrust reversers. I guess there's a switch to hit to unlock them first before pulling back. That may pose a problem. MY only way to adapt if I can't hit with my right hand would be to swap hands on landing briefly.

Now, I've spoken to several regional pilots already and they generally agree that I have a shot. But these people are long time friends and want to see me succeed after they've seen go through what I went through.

I have a chief pilot of a corporate flight department that flies a Falcon 50 who has written me a letter of recomendation.

Now, after seeing these pictures below, what would you think?

Also, if you want know more about me:
www.myspace.com/phoenixflood


My right hand, palm up:
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2316/dsc06363ug3.jpg

My right hand, palm inward:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3504/dsc06364jj8.jpg

My right hand, grabbing my flight sim yoke:
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9451/dsc06365cm2.jpg

Me getting checked out in a Cirrus SR22 GTS, shooting an ILS:
http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fusea...deoid=13990050

Me posing with the guy who saved my life after giving him a ride in my Grumman Yankee:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4910/dscf0138hg0.jpg



UPDATE!!!



This is now a non-issue. Just sat down in a Challenger 601 and all I need to do is bring my right hand underneath the TR levers from the right side and simply lift up. Once the triggers have been pressed in and the TR's lifted up, I bring my right hand back on top and pull them back with ease.



Like I said, I was worried about nothing.



Thanks for the tips everyone.

very sorry to hear about your accident, but glad youre ok and still flying.

If you get hired on the CRJ, you can work the thrust reversers by pulling back on the reverse levers located on the thrust levers, theres no gate or switch, the thrust levers just have to be back at idle for the reverse to come out of the interlock. Good luck and keep us posted.

See, that's what I've always thought, but I've had two captain friends of mine, one at Pinnacle another at Air Wisconsin, both said there's a switch to hit before you can pull them back.

The Air Wisconsin captain told me to climb into a Challenger where I work at and see how I fare and then I'll have a better idea. I plan on doing this tomorrow morning.

But I also wanted some outside peer advice as well.

I fly a CRJ for Comair and you just pull the thrust levers back..then pull on the reversers. No buttons or anything so it seems like you would be fine especially since you will be doing all this with your left hand as a First Officer. I bet that if you called Comair and explained the situation or really any regional for that matter..that they would be willing to let you try it out in the sim or something. Good luck!!

Sorry to hear about your accident. I hate to be the one to bring this up, but your disability could possibly prevent you from accomplishing some required items. In the ERJ for example there are several controls on the yoke such as the Autopilot disconnect, TCS, Primary Trim switch, and more importantly the steering disconnect trigger. Two of which are included in several memory items such as uncontrollable aircraft swerving, pitch trim runaways, etc....

I surely wish you luck, but you should look into these items before investing too much in an airline career.

You have my respect and I hope everything works out for you.

Sorry to hear about your accident. I have flown with two captains at Skywest who have similar injuries to yours. Both had only two working appendages on their right hand. Your friend at Whisky has the right idea though. It doesn't matter what it looks like. The FAA and the company will evaluate your ability to be an airline pilot based on how you can manipulate the controls of your aircraft. Good Luck.

No there is a lockout switch that you have to pull up on in order to engage the thrust reversers.
I don't currently fly for a regional but i took the CRJ course at my school and remember how much of a pain it was to engage them at first.

Yeah, I realize that there are many things in the yoke. I have flown right seat in a Lear that has many of those things you mentioned above on the right side of the copilots yoke. Those aren't an issue. I just simply brace the yoke up higher, and move my thumb to said switchs, OR, just simply throw my left hand over there quickly and hit said switch.

As fas researching an airline career before investing, yeah, I was already on my way untill this happen to me six years ago. I was at 1100 TT back then when the regionals would laugh at you with 1200 and 200 multi.

hey sorry to hear about that man.. can you get a first class medical? if you can then i see no problem in you flying for the regionals. you will more than likely have to get a soda attached to your medical, but that should be no problem if you can do everything just fine.

and on the thrust reversers, they do have to be at idle, and there are release buttons on the thrustreverser themselves, but they are located where you grab them from so if you can move them, you can probably push in the releases to pull them back. i think some people were confused about that on here. on the crj 200 there ARE thrust lever release buttons built into the thrustreverser handles.

Hmm, I'm starting to wonder if this is a serial number issue. Either Bombardier started putting these on, or did up untill a point.

If I came across that, and if it was hard for you, then upon landing I will definitly have to swap hands on landing. Right hand on yoke for cross wind correction while my left hand brings on the reversers.

Gotcha, that makes sense. I'll know more atfer I sit down in the Challenger at work tomorrow.

And yes, I do have my first class with a SODA.

ok, i think you have done it all then. just go get hired and prove that you can do everything in the sim and you should be fine...getting the first job is going to be a beast though, but you can do it if you want it.

lockout switch? i flew the crj and it definitly did not have a lockout switch (skywest fleet) and my brother has informed me that mesa's fleet doesnt have a lockout switch either.

however, there are vertical actuators on the thrust levers you have to squeeze on when moving the thrust lever from cutoff to idle and vice versa.

On startup right? That won't be an issue since I'll be able to swoop my left hand down there to that when in the left seat. And definitly not an issue while in the right seat.

correct, and on shutdown (in flight engine shutdown could be a factor but if you were doing it youd be the Pilot Monitoring and not the Pilot Flying). the spring on it is not very stiff either it requires only light pressure.

Yeah, that could be interesting. All it would take would be a few dry runs in the sim or even in the a/c on the ground and I'd have my technique down in a few tries.

If there's one thing I've learned is that "can't" isn't in my vocabulary. I never thought I'd fly again, did it. Never thought I'd fly a multi again, did it. Never thought I'd CFI again, did it.

It sounds like I may be worrying just a bit too much.

I'll be going in to work early tomorrow and jump in one of the Challengers in our hangar and see how it feels. See how it goes with my right hand. See how smoothly it would be to throw my right hand on top of the yoke to maintain direction while throwing my left hand under to the throttles.

not to change the thread but your guys rj's didn't have any release buttons on your thrustreversers?? that is weird, it must be because you all got the first crj's... ALL of our crj's have this unlock,, you can kinda see it in this photo...if you look at the thrustreversers you see the side molding that is a solid piece on the side, then directly to the left underneath (on the thrustreverser) you can see a break, that is the "buttons you push" to get the thrustreverser out of the stowed position, when you do this you will hear a click and then be able to move them. you literally have to push them in, wait for the click, and then pull them back.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1001198/L/

then when you stow the thrustreversers you just push them back down and you will hear them LOCK again.

your right, wow i never remembered having to press on those i guess its more of a natural thing when you pull on them. hmmm i think phoenixflood should still be able to work those correct?

PF,

Sorry to hear about your situation. The big thing isn't whether an airline will hire you. It's whether the FAA will certify you. To fly as a required crewmember, I believe that you'll need an additional SODA for each aircraft type/seat position that you fly in at the airlines (transport category aircraft).

I know a pilot that is an amputee. He has a limitation on his medical that prior to flying any particular make/model, he must demonstrate that he is capable of manipulating all the required flight controls, switches, etc. Once he has done so, he gets an addition to his SODA for that make/model.

I would suggest that you call AOPA and ask the medical staff there what they might suggest. You might also try calling the FSDO (particularly one that oversees whichever company you are interested in applying to), ALPA aeromedical or the NBAA. Each organization might have some information on how to proceed. Our advice gets you started in the right direction, but the truth is web info will only take you so far. To my knowledge, none of us that have responded are POIs for a particular airline or AMEs or any other type of person that could give you "official" advice.

Good luck.

FlyerJosh,
Is this pilot you know currently flying for a 121 carrier?

I think you have a good chance. I think ASA flight 529's F/O is working again after having to recover from his burns and injuries. Good luck to you.

Yeah he his. That was the link I posted in my first post. I've been trying to contact him since it appears our hand injury's are alike.

He does not, however he does have an ATP rating and several type ratings. He flies professionally.

I have heard a story about an airline pilot at NWA(?) with a disability (might have been arm amputated?). He was restricted to right seat flying only and only in a particular seat. Can't confirm that though or remember where I heard it.

I also went to school with Dana Bowman, a former Golden Knights parachuter that lost both of his legs (one above the knee and one below). We were in private pilot ground school together. He went on to get SODA's for flight and eventually got commercial ratings in Airplane ME/SE Land, Airplane SE Sea, Helicopter (CFI), and free balloon.

You need to talk to a few AME's, FSDO, FAA, and AOPA will probably be able to help you out. They will give you the real advice, not someone on this forum trying to figure out if you can operate thrust reversers or not!

The FAA cares more about paperwork than if you can actually perform anyway, so get the proper paperwork and certification first, then go for the job.

I know we have a Captain in our company at American Eagle (121) who had a leg amputated. He has a prosthetic leg but I dont know all the details of how he got his medical and certification.

Sorry to hear about your accident. I saw the pictures of the crash on your myspace. It is amazing that you survived.

The best of luck to you.

UPDATE!!!

This is now a non-issue. Just sat down in a Challenger 601 and all I need to do is bring my right hand underneath the TR levers from the right side and simply lift up. Once the triggers have been pressed in and the TR's lifted up, I bring my right hand back on top and pull them back with ease.

Like I said, I was worried about nothing.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I wanted to bring up one thing I didn't see mentioned: the Americans with Disbilities Act. You may actually have some kind of advantage as the airlines are required to demonstrate compliance. You might be able to take advantage of that as they might need to hire someone in order to show compliance. I haven't worked with the ADA in a while, but it is something to think about.

I know, but I don't want to play that card if I have to. I can fly the plane just as good as anyone else, just with minus a few fingers.

I'm sure you can, but there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of every opportunity you can. That is what CRM is all about: using every available resource to ensure a safe and successful flight. Besides, its not that you "use" ADA to gain an advantage, the airline may recognize the advantage to them of hiring you because ADA exists. In any case, good luck and I'd fly with you any day. What you have overcome is significant and impressive.

First things first, a huge Kudo's to you for continuing your dream and not letting this stop you. I have no personal experience with the airlines or how they would handle your hand issue, but honestly if you are confident, willing, and able to do all the tasks required, I'm confident you will make it work. Best of luck pursuing your dream!!!

Phoenix,

The CRJ (all models) certainly does have a TR release catch. There are also a few other control manipulations which you might need to get creative with also, but I suspect you could figure it all out.

Also the yoke is fat, and requires a LOT of gripping force during a X-Wind landing to hold the required correction...especially since your hands are often sweaty. Many folks need to use both hands...they deploy the TRs, then put their throttle hand back on the yoke. I do it one handed cuz I like quick access the TR's on icy runways, but it still takes me a lot of effort one-handed...and I'm not a small person.

I assume you hold an unrestricted 1st. Class medical? Even so it's possible that you could encounter some resistance at an interview strictly due to safety concerns. A couple of thoughts...

1) The ADA almost never applies to airline pilots (the legacy carriers spent a lot of cash in the 1990's to ensure this legal precedent). In this case I suspect that you would be an exception. The downside to the ADA is that you now have a public record of suing airline employers...may not be a good credential to have in this industry. I'm not sure if a prospective employer can legally hold that against you, but like I said, lawsuits are PUBLIC records.

2) You might be the only person I've talked to who I feel might actually benefit from spending the money to earn a CRJ type rating...this would allow you to figure out whatever tricks you need in advance, and would obviosly re-assure an interviewer who is concerned with your ability to complete training.

However...if an employer has legit concerns that your physical condition presents a safety problem you might not be able to work around that.

Also be aware that public perception is somewhat important in the airline business. Passengers are inherently stupid, bizarre, and unpredictable...pax who see a pilot who appears to be physically impaired may deplane the aircraft, complain to the company, call the FAA, etc. You may want to think in advance how you could avoid such situations, and be prepared to discuss this with an employer.

Good Luck!

One thing he did mention is he has a custom fitted glove to help that hand grip, so I would also assume it would look fairly "normal" in the sense of a cover-up as avoid any conflict in that area.

The custom fit batting glove I wear makes my right hand look like the fist is clenched at first glance.

The first year after my injury I wore it 24/7 just because I was self conscious on how it looked.

GO FOR IT ....you have a GREAT attitude, and I think you have a good shot, as does the pilot thats sitting with me reading this thread......keep us updated!

As for the flying public I know a man who flies for a Legacy regional who appears VERY badly burned all over his face, and he had no problem flying for a very good major.....

Thanks, I need that.

Also, pics from my sit down in the Challenger this morning:

Left hand, left yoke:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3424/dsc01537ix7.jpg

Right hand on main throttle:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4998/dsc01538jf5.jpg


Right hand, coming underneath to "push" the TR's up:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9125/dsc01539hv0.jpg

Hand Swap:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/5209/dsc01543my6.jpg

Right hand, right yoke:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8522/dsc01545in2.jpg

Left hand, TR's "normal" way:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7008/dsc01546ny3.jpg

I am typed in the ERJ and the CRJ. I think the CRJ T/R would be much easier to lift up in your situation. The ERJ has a small two finger lift to open the T/R's up.

To the guy who posted about public perception, good grief that was a jacka$$ dumb post. You know what the majority of those people are going to see? They are going to see someone that overcame a "disability" and is now an inspiration to others. Then they are going to pi$$ and moan why you are 4 minutes late getting them to "Padooka Falls".

I had a student in almost your identical position. He flew as good as any students out there. He was picked up by a regional.

Quit goofing off on here looking for opinions on what you can do and not do. You have proved you can do it. Get your apps in there and go get a job flying.

Keep us updated on who is lucky enough to hire you.

Another reason I know this is going to happen for Phoenix, is his attitude. I had a student, who's hands were born as stub's. It was a birth defect for him. This guy was one of the most proficient pilots I've taught. Worked hard, and didn't let anything stop him. He also rides a harley, and is a reserve police officer, so he has to be able to handle a weapon. Very cool guy, and just reminds me that I need to give him a call and get an update on how things are going for him.

EDIT:Phoenix, when you have the ability to PM, I have a link to send to you for this guy.

Well then, let's all sing Kumbaya! You have a very optimistic view of human nature, your pax must be the nicest, most understanding pax in the whole industry...oh wait, you fly boxes so you wouldn't even know :rolleyes:

I was trying to help the guy by pointing out possible stumbling blocks, so he could be prepared in advance to deal with them.

I agree.

I hate to be "that guy", but it seems I am not alone. Public perception is a part of this situation and you have to consider it just as you have considered the every other possibility. I wish you the very best and honestly hope you get hired where ever you want to work, but I don't think it is going to happen. Just my opinion and I hope you prove me wrong.

What gets me is the thrust reverser hand "switch". I picture my two strongest crosswind landings (DAY and LGA) during the winter. If I take my hand off that yoke for one second we are drifting off the side of the runway. And if I don't deploy those reversers, stopping is going to be very interesting.

Bash away people.

BTW, if you do get hired at a regional, I want to be the first to know. Because I am going to buy you a steak dinner and watch you eat it with my foot in my mouth!

Thrust Reversers Hardly Do Anything And They Arent Used In Stopping Distance!
 

Studies have shown that the actual use of Thrust reversers have a very minimal if any effect at all when it comes to stopping an airplane, hence when they compute stopping distance they dont account for thrust reverseres being deployed. We "pop the buckets" to help create drag and bring the nose down but thrust reverser's are probably used by many because of the super cool sound they make:rolleyes: not to mention how much sh*t they can throw into an engine as well as waste gas..............

PS the guy above says his landing would be "very interesting" if he didnt deploy the Thrust Reversers??????????????? Come on bro, If you are relying on that to get the airplane stopped you landed way too long and should have went around in the first place..........

Phoenix don't listen to anyone go out there and get the ******* job, dont let anybody, especially those who think Thrust Reversers saved there ass from going of the end of the runway, tell you any different