TonyC

I will not try to speak for individuals and their personal reasons for disliking ALPA. In many cases, I have witnessed misplaced anger. In some cases, they may have been unfairly treated -- by their own peers that volunteer their service to the benefit of the entire pilot group. We're humans, and sometimes we make mistakes. ALPA is not a "magic pill" that will cure all ills or make people perfect.

I also won't try to explain the long history of collective bargaining at other properties. Books have been written on the subject. I won't even try to explain how on my own property ALPA won the first representation election, was replaced by an "In-house" union, and then how that "In-house" union merged with ALPA when we saw that it was to our collective benefit.

I won't try to speculate on why representation elections have failed. I have found a high prevalence of "it won't affect" me attitudes at a property where there is rapid turnover and a willingness to suffer pain in return for a quick upgrade and a leg up to a job with "the majors." I don't know if that's the primary reason, but I'm certain it's a tough hurdle to success.

However, more important than those three questions is this: what will ALPA do for you? In addition to the pilot volunteers you will have working in your local organization, you'll have the support of a full-time national staff that includes:

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National Committees support local airline committees in critical areas such as Air Safety, Security, Flight Time/Duty Time, and Jumpseat.

The local pilot group makes its own decisions related to contract provisions, strategic planning and priorities, and pilot group initiatives, but it has full access to the complete array of ALPA's professional, financial, and other resources. ALPA is truly by pilots for pilots.

The question is whether you want to be an at-will employee that can be fired for no cause, working under "rules" that can be changed on a whim, risking your livelihood and future for an employer that views you as little more than a cost center to be minimized, or whether you want real work rules with real protections and a real expectation of career progression and protection. The stakes are high, and the hazards are real. When it comes to putting food on the table for my family, I have a responsibility to stick to the conservative bets, and avail myself of every advantage and protection I can get. In that light, ALPA is a far better value than my auto insurance.



Sorry for the length -- and that's just my opinion.





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TonyC

We're human, and we make mistakes. It's very easy, and extremely tempting, to turn this into an emotional issue. It shouldn't be. It is a business decision. Examine the facts, wiegh the issues, and make a decision based on what is fiscally responsible. Don't judge the entire organization by the foibles of a few. (I'm not pointing fingers or accusing, I'm speaking in generalities.)

It's like the guy who refused to "join" a particular church because he knew that certain hypocrites were members. As long as there are human members, there will be imperfect members. If you see a problem, pitch in to help fix it.


Strictly business.




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Flyer00

First, its not ALPA getting their fingers into Skywest, that shows how little you understand whats happening. Do you pay into the big pot, yes. That big pot funds the money and resources that YOUR elected representation from YOUR pilot group will use to defend YOU when YOUR mgmt decides to violate YOUR CONTRACT, or to protect YOUR a$$ when YOU mess up.

Maybe he is a little frustrated because many of us have fought tooth and nail and sacrificed to improve our pay scales and work rules...meanwhile, Skywest pilots benefit from our advances as Skywest mgmt has been giving their pilot group just enough improvements to keep a union off property.

At the same time, when it becomes time for the rest of us to negotiate our next contract, our companies look to the rest of the industry and say "well, look at what skywest does it for..." Makes it kind of hard for all of us, doesn't it??

At some point you have to let go of everyone's shirt tails and take the lead. If you don't want ALPA, fine. But you guys need to make SAPA or WHATEVER group you decide to represent you strong, and begin to stand up.

Reading this board, it sounds like most of you think you have it great and there is nothing to improve, WRONG! There is always something to improve. You don't want to be the highest paid group, why? Are you crazy? Some of you may point to Comair's contract in the past....well you are just illustrating my point. The folks at the majors (where you all hope you're quick upgrades will get you) understood what that Comair contract meant to everyone, and that is why pilots from just about ALL the majors (ALPA represented or not) were writing checks to help support those guys while they were out on the street. Time to look at the big picture and take it back.

Flyer00

Devils advocate: If ALPA is so evil, why have their been recent additions then to ALPA?

They might not be ALPA, but they do have representation that sees the big picture, and are not in bed with management. But as someone else pointed out, this is not a fair comparison...You are also comparing it to places where the pilot groups are larger and they are making much more money then you can at skywest. That means that their 1% or whatever they pay, equates to a lot larger amount. An amount that is large enough to support their group in their fight.

Either way, look at what has come out of those non-ALPA groups...UPS has a great new contract, AA has their PUP campaign going, SWA has the best agreement out there for 737 drivers and they are STILL trying to improve their contract. Bottom line, they are not ALPA but they are STILL fighting for improvements. What has SAPA done for you lately?

If you don't want ALPA fine. Don't vote for them. IMHO, I think the frustrations you are reading or hearing are from people who are just sick of watching skywest sit back and accept what is GIVEN to them, because all most people there care about is growth and a quick upgrade.

ExperimentalAB

You forget that we have a great mix of the three: quick upgrade, solid growth, AND some of the best work rules in the Industry.

Next argument?

bizzum

You really think the upgrades and growth will continue forever? I can guarantee it wont. Just because things are good now, does not mean they will be even next week. Look at AWAC and ACA. Things can change overnight, and if you think your "best work rules in the industry" can't be changed to "worst world rules in the industry" on a whim by your management when times get bad, you are severely mistaken. You are a contractor. If your mainline partner needs the flying done cheaper, where will the cuts come from? YOU! With out any representation, they can and will just take what they want. If you have a CBA, they CANNOT take unless YOUR PILOT GROUP agrees to it.

SharkyBN584

And that's going to last forever and ever and ever because management can't take any of that away with the drop of hat....SAPA won't let them. Like I said before, this ALPA drive will probably fail because things are good at SKW. Let us know what you think when it's a 4 year upgrade and those work rules go to hell...

ExperimentalAB

I know ya'll don't think we're that dumb enough to think that upgrade and growth will continue, unchecked, for years to come...

rjboy

I understand that SKW pilot will make up up the MEC and will negotiate our contract. But it is blindness to pretend that we would be independant and free from ALPA national. The ASA merger situation is only the most obvious example. If we were merged and were ALPA we are subject to ALPA's merger policies. I have never even remotely inferred that I thought the ALPA national president would be running the show at SKW but to act like we would be free from ALPA national's agenda is just as one sided.

Also it may be important for you to understand for your future attacks on me that from your posts it seems like you may be fairly new to the whole union experience as most at SKW are. I have already been in and out of two unions (not aviation but professional) in my life. I don't need to do a whole lot of research because as anyone who has actually worked a union job can tell you, the rules are your life and you catch on pretty quick. I understand better than 90% of SKW pilots what it will be like with a union. I also want to restate that I am not anti-union but I know first hand how important it is for your union to represent your interests and not someone else's.

Slaphappy

Alpa wont pass. They only got about 50% of the cards and half of those were from people who have already left.

If you want to be stapled at the bottom of the ASA list then vote yes.
If you want the upgrade to go to 3+ years then vote yes.
If you want to end up like the lifers who are just bitter then are stuck at skywest for life vote yes.

and for the love of god dont listen to the clowns at other alpa regionals they only want to hurt skywest to the point where they can pick up flying from us or before us.