For Those About to Vote/Not Vote ALPA At SkyWest...
10-22-2007, 06:03 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Captain
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by dontsurf
um...seriously, this is silly. should we talk to guys at united or any other alpa carriers and see if they are happy with their executives' compensation?
Great point. Executives are different than the leaders of a Union.
10-22-2007, 10:11 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 408
Originally Posted by ghilis101
reel you are right, often times junior guys get completely screwed during concessions or when negotiating a new contract. but is it really the unions fault? i contend that this is not inherent to unions whatsoever. once again i will use the skywest pay example and what happened to the EMB-120 pilots last year. as the "narrowbody" guys (loosely correlating of course) in the company, they got sold down the river. And this was not the doing of a union.
When a union supports a TA or LOA or CBA that hurts the junior guys, its most likely because of who is in place on the executive committee and representing the union. Theyre more likely to be senior and could possibly be biased to themselves. But when times were good, everyone had it relatively good (except probationary year which has been bad almost everywhere) when it came to wages and work rules. Dont forget that you still have the power to vote. United successfully voted down in almost unanimous fashion their first crack at a lousy TA this past spring/summer even when their MEC said it would be good. Plus look at a place like continental. They are going to be extremely junior and totally "bottom-heavy." You think the senior guys are going to be able to run that place? Theyd have to convince all the guys with horrible QOL on the 737 to give in and believe me thats not going to happen. Youre going to see a lot of great changes for the narrow body guys there in their next contract. With a union you have a lot of power in choosing who represents you, and you should vote accordingly, and always vote. And if you dont like something you can run for a rep position.
The important thing is to stay active, stay involved, and dont sit back and think oh the union will handle it. Sure they will do what they can, but its YOUR union (if you get one). only YOU and your fellow pilots can make it work. Its not easy for those guys to get everything you want, but its up to you to let them know whats really important to you, and if they arent working for you, you can change that. Pilots are extremely apathetic and love to b*tch about everything (I do it all the time but Im learning to channel that negativity toward something good haha). If we used that energy to strengthen our pilot group instead and come up with really great ideas to improve our industry think about how much farther we will be down the road.
If you guys dont get a union thats your choice, but I would like to see you guys come together anyway and be a strong group
When a union supports a TA or LOA or CBA that hurts the junior guys, its most likely because of who is in place on the executive committee and representing the union. Theyre more likely to be senior and could possibly be biased to themselves. But when times were good, everyone had it relatively good (except probationary year which has been bad almost everywhere) when it came to wages and work rules. Dont forget that you still have the power to vote. United successfully voted down in almost unanimous fashion their first crack at a lousy TA this past spring/summer even when their MEC said it would be good. Plus look at a place like continental. They are going to be extremely junior and totally "bottom-heavy." You think the senior guys are going to be able to run that place? Theyd have to convince all the guys with horrible QOL on the 737 to give in and believe me thats not going to happen. Youre going to see a lot of great changes for the narrow body guys there in their next contract. With a union you have a lot of power in choosing who represents you, and you should vote accordingly, and always vote. And if you dont like something you can run for a rep position.
The important thing is to stay active, stay involved, and dont sit back and think oh the union will handle it. Sure they will do what they can, but its YOUR union (if you get one). only YOU and your fellow pilots can make it work. Its not easy for those guys to get everything you want, but its up to you to let them know whats really important to you, and if they arent working for you, you can change that. Pilots are extremely apathetic and love to b*tch about everything (I do it all the time but Im learning to channel that negativity toward something good haha). If we used that energy to strengthen our pilot group instead and come up with really great ideas to improve our industry think about how much farther we will be down the road.
If you guys dont get a union thats your choice, but I would like to see you guys come together anyway and be a strong group
10-23-2007, 12:10 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SKYW CRJ FO
Posts: 467
Judging by the way ALPA is still showing up at airports and calling to see if you have received your stuff in the mail, I am going to guess it isn't going to well?
Does anyone know the truth? Or where the percentage actually is?
Does anyone know the truth? Or where the percentage actually is?
10-23-2007, 12:33 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
Well first off, it's funny you mention the United TA this summer, because I was a first hand witness to a very bitter convo between a 320 F/O and a 767/757 Capt about a week after that vote. It's actually a perfect example of how their management has succesfully pitted the senior vs. the junior. And myself being a SUPER junior pilot (relative to the entire industry) I find it difficult to find ways that ALPA fights for me. But I do hope your right, I hope that ALPA, if voted onto property at SkyWest, will create a truly unified group that does what's best for every pilot at SkyWest, whether it be the 18 year jet check airmen or the reserve FAT 120 F/O. Unfortunately for the last decade, this has not been the way things have panned out at ALPA. Either way, I'll be glad when the drive is over, my mailbox is getting full.
10-23-2007, 06:25 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
Well first off, it's funny you mention the United TA this summer, because I was a first hand witness to a very bitter convo between a 320 F/O and a 767/757 Capt about a week after that vote. It's actually a perfect example of how their management has succesfully pitted the senior vs. the junior. And myself being a SUPER junior pilot (relative to the entire industry) I find it difficult to find ways that ALPA fights for me. But I do hope your right, I hope that ALPA, if voted onto property at SkyWest, will create a truly unified group that does what's best for every pilot at SkyWest, whether it be the 18 year jet check airmen or the reserve FAT 120 F/O.
10-23-2007, 07:18 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: CL604
Posts: 90
Duane Woerth President $ 485,411
Prater said he wouldn't accept anything more than what he would make in his position at CAL. We'll have to check at the end of the year after they make disclosures. Either way, his election was a move in the right direction.
10-23-2007, 10:27 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 408
Originally Posted by Blkflyer
Your ALPA rep will be who you vote in, ie your fellow pilot You have the power to voice your concerns Dont think ALPA is going to come in and change this and that, that is not what ALPA, IN the end YOU are the ones who will command change and you have the Coffers of ALPA to support you.
So that's partly what I mean when I say that ALPA stands for only the most senior of pilots right now. They certainly haven't cared about the junior pilots at majors, evidenced by the now extreme number of RJ's, and I haven't seen ALPA national do all that much for RJ drivers either. If ALPA was truly a group that fights for every pilot every time, I believe that they wouldn't have any trouble being voted in at SkyWest.
Originally Posted by Thinking man
And, what was the pay raise for the EMB pilots? Seems like SkyWest management (and SAPA) are doing fine job dividing pilots...
10-23-2007, 12:34 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SkyWest Capt.
Posts: 2,963
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
No where in any post did I say SkyWest pilots were any more unified than any ALPA group. The Bro guys got skrewed, the only consolation is that it looks like the majority of our Bro's are being replaced with jets and it looks like (fingers crossed) that it won't result in any domicile closings.
Personally, that makes me sick. No offense.
IMO, if our Bro brethren get nothing than we all should get nothing; but that's unity and SKW has none. Now that the RJ boys voted yes; the only thing our Bro brethren can look forward to is going to the RJ for decreased QOL or 4+ years of the same BS pay, low QOL with no COLA.
I flew the Bro back in the day so I'm sympathetic to their cause, although that shouldn’t matter, but that’s just me showing unity. Boy it's a lonely place around here for us attemptimg to stick together. Just wish someone would get the knife out of my back.
Just calling it like I see it.
Yes, I voted Yes for ALPA for many legitimate reasons. But the pi$$ off pilot in me wants it to pass just so those who left the Bro boys out will have to pay 2%. That will be a 1% net loss after the BS pay increase we took last year. I’d pay 2% just to see their faces. You might say that's not showing unity? But that would be Hypocritical!
I'm not saying you are one of "those SKW pilots," after all I don't know you.
Last edited by JetJock16; 10-23-2007 at 01:31 PM.
10-23-2007, 04:02 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by Koolaidman
Judging by the way ALPA is still showing up at airports and calling to see if you have received your stuff in the mail, I am going to guess it isn't going to well? Does anyone know the truth? Or where the percentage actually is?
Perhaps the ALPA organizing comm. might suggest otherwise, but the reality is that should it pass, it'll be close. Very close.
I can't imagine that anybody would be able to "see how the vote is going". I'm sure ALPA is hedging all their bets. It seems that there's not a billboard in the SLC airport that doesn't have an ALPA advertisement in it.
I just got a brochure that had to cost at least $10 a pop to produce (times 3000 pilots). ALPA has a FULL time rep living in Salt Lake until the vote is final. They are spending MILLIONS for this vote.
I predict something like 40% for, 60% against (or no vote).
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