National / Jet carriers like SKW, XJT, RAH, ASA or any other are not going to pay mainline rates to fly 80-100 set aircraft. If the Mainline wanted that cost structure they would fly them themselves. Reality is that mainline carriers DONT want to fly aircraft that size, their eye is on LONG HAUL, INTERNATIONAL and HIGHLY profitable routes.....

NOW....can, will and should these carriers pay more for the likes of the 700, 900 and 170/175 ...yes... will those payscales ever equal what an equivalent mainline rate would possibly be... highly unlikely.

Reality is that this business has been evolving and changing for 20 years. Mainline carriers are flying bigger and bigger aircraft and getting rid of the smaller aircraft all during this time. At the same time the old "regional" carrier has taken on a different role... at JET carriers flying those smaller aircraft and yes maybe slightly less profitable routes that mainline doesnt want to directly fly.

NONE of that precludes better pay and benefits and work rules. But the fact is that pay at THIS level will never equal the pay at THAT level.


and in fact... I believe other than a few isolated cases so called regional airlines are NOT regional at all. Perhaps this forum should be JET/NATIONAL airlines........ just a thought

Its not busting my bubble at all.....i work for a completely different company. Im just saying not to get your hopes up....you guys deserve a contract...its been a long ass time...my point was that you guys dont have to settle for the first thing that comes your way. If you stand up for what is right and set an example...other pilot groups will follow.

And carib pilot....are u even out of training yet? Get some line experience and you'll see what i mean

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that airlines are categorized by gross revenue. From what I remember:

1B or > = Major
$500M - $999M = National
$100M - $499M = LCC
$50M - $99M = Regional

or something to that effect.:confused:



atp

Eh...that's how the politicians label us is all. Nothing more.

So i guess you a holding line at another company supercedes me actually being here and holding the contract in hand?? How will being on a line prove your point?:confused: I have been given a copy of this contract and have read it front to back. The fact is, this contract DEMOLISHES alot of the other regional contracts out there. I've seen other contracts, ive done my homework before i even applied bub. Do you even know any details of the contract besides pay??

Whats up Flyboy8784? I am willing to say that the TA will be approved at ASA as Flyboy8784 stated...

Who knows whats going on with the ATRs or the 900s? The ATR training department has no idea, but we have so many well informed people here? If you really know, you're upper management and under contract not to leak such info. :eek:

Carbpilot, pilots fresh out of training generally hold their opinions, as hard as it was for me. ;)

BASTARD STEP CHILD?! Yeah you guys are probably right, but in the end thats just how Skywest Airline employees think of ASA. I doubt Skywest Inc Upper management (you know the decision makers) would be as immature. They're motivated by money, not emotion or partiality. Skywest Management will move to another company/industry when the money is right. Their not as partial to their airline as we are, their careers simply don't rest on the survival and growth of Skywest Airlines like yours does. Why don't you guys vote yes on the Union. Its amazing how many mainline airline pilots ask me when you guys are going to vote it in...

Stay classy Flyboy8784.

"BASTARD STEP CHILD" isn't a term to demean; it just verbal illustration that describes ASA's position under SKW Inc. Looking at it, the term “Bastard” should be removed because you’re not fatherless (DAL), so ASA should just be called the “RED HEADED STEP CHILD.” I also said that ASA is LOVED none the less! Despite what ASA employees seem to think, we at SKW don't think poorly of ASA employees nor do we have any ill-will. The fact is you’re “FAMILY” now, but so many of our pilots/FA’s seem to forget this simple fact. We've seen far more disrespect from ASA FLT Crew than is reciprocated. I'm based in ATL and we've had FA’s literally enter the crew lounge almost in tears (I witness 3 examples myself) from being THROWN off ASA a/c when they stayed behind to help clean up and cross seatbelts. When taxiing most of us refer to ASA as company, "Foxtrot to 26L behind Company." Regardless I understand there are bad apples in every bunch and SKW isn't immune.

We need to stop the bickering and pull together. The first steep is getting ALPA at SKW. If the ALPA drive fails, sure of it (I voted yes), that doesn't mean we have to stay divided. I was a commuter for almost 2 years between PHX and FAT, DEN, SLC, TUS and ATL (for a few months before I moved). I'd say about 80% of all the mainline pilots I came across repeatedly said we didn't need a union after I told them about our policies. Unfortunately it's the grey areas, changing the policies overnight and examples being made out of pilots that tells me we need protection & representation.

BTW, I have two friends at ASA so I've had the opportunity to look over the TA. There are some loop holes that are in SKW favor but overall it's the best TA in the nation. At least for awhile ASA will be the highest paid. Some may say hold out! I don't recommend it, if you guys don't sign this TA you’ll regret it in the end. Also the way it works is ASA tops the industry, then RAH, then XJT, then someone else and it goes on and on. You just can't expect to jump 30% right away on the regional level. After all, most of your pilots are getting around a 15-17% raise (Senior 200 & ATR CA's) with healthy raises across the board. Through all the guaranteed rigs in and you guys are going to make way more money than you realize. I know it won't fail and it shouldn't. SKW gave you 95+% of what you wanted and you deserved it.

IMO + 2 cents.............................FWIW.

Jeeze....you guys are making me out to be another SKY HIGH :p. Carib pilot...the reason why i said that was because i was just like you in training. You'll find out once u get on line that there is alot of BS involved.... certain things will make you say "God...i dont get paid enough for this"

Example: Anyone who has flown on the east coast for the last 3 days knows that the weather has been miserable. Any of you guys fmailiar with the DCA ramp? Gate 35A?....all the buses were ferrying passengers back and forth...so in a steady downpoor with gusty winds...i had to walk 300 yards to track down the gate agent who took my release by mistake.

Its also little things like passengers thanking you for missing their connections... or cursing out your flight attendant because their carry on fit on the airbus they just flew in....why cant it fit in this airplane? Or working at 16 hour duty day and only getting paid for half of it...with min rest.

Now you can also do what a friend of mine does at RH....he does just the bare minimum thats asked of him becuase he doesnt get paid enough to go the extra mile. He will slam his airplane onto the runway and still take a smiling bow afterwards..."When they start paying me to make nice landings...i'll do them"

Like i said before...you guys deserve a new contract more than any other regional out there....im thankful we are getting our 2001 contract back and we have a fantastic TA compared to the others. But Retro Pay hasnt been settled yet because our pilots and MEC are fighting for whats right. All I was saying was you gotta understand why some of your pilots want to/will vote it down. I heard one of you guys post a few weeks ago that he thought your 700 pilots made "too much money already":confused:. Good luck on your vote guys.

And flybywire...sorry man...its just hard to stay classy as a yankees fan without Joe Torre and watching that dirty ass Manny Ramirez and in World Series :mad:

Flyboy8784, you still can't close....... You've changed so much since training, maybe you should practice my principles...

Look who's talking Mr. I havent closed a deal in almost a year ;)....I've been getting mine