logging time
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 401
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 266
Or maybe I am reading it wrong....
#23
Not sure that I agree with you there.
ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."
Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.
Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."
It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.
ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."
Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.
Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."
It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
I believe that it can and should be logged as total time. I have found another reason to support my opinion and that is 61.57...the fact that you may log landings (night and day) for currency using a sim. If I can log takeoffs, landings and instrument time, then I am logging total as well. Anything that is loggable in the logbook, is loggable as total time. It is all aeronautical experience. Then you break it down into its subcategories; ie sim, pic, night, sic, x-c, etc.
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 96
For those of you that got an iPhone... there is an electronic logbook similar to Logbook Pro, it is called LogTen Pro that is Mac OSX compatible and people are already working on a solution to download you schedule from the iPhone into your Mac... should be available soon
Check LogTen Pro:
http://coradine.com/
In case you loathe PC's and that Windows garbage like I do...
Check LogTen Pro:
http://coradine.com/
In case you loathe PC's and that Windows garbage like I do...
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 401
I believe that it can and should be logged as total time. I have found another reason to support my opinion and that is 61.57...the fact that you may log landings (night and day) for currency using a sim. If I can log takeoffs, landings and instrument time, then I am logging total as well. Anything that is loggable in the logbook, is loggable as total time. It is all aeronautical experience. Then you break it down into its subcategories; ie sim, pic, night, sic, x-c, etc.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Not sure that I agree with you there.
ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."
Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.
Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."
It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.
ATP Aeronautical experience requirements
61.159(a)5, "Not more than 100 hours of total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center qualified under part 142 of this chapter."
Also reference 61.129(i)1,2 / 61.109(k)1, 2 for the same basic allowance only for use toward Commercial Certificates and Private Pilot Certificates respectively, and in these cases, the sim time may be obtained from outside of a Part 142 facility. My interpretation of these reg's in addition to the lack of reference of the in-ability to log Sim time toward total aeronautical experience leads me to conclude that appropriate approved sim time received from an instructor / approved facility may be logged as total experience, however only a certain amount may be counted toward your ratings.
Finally, reference 61.51(h)1 Logging Training Time
"A person may log training time when that person recieves training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."
It does not specify that it may only be logged as sim...only that it may be logged as training time, and as stated previously, only a certain amount may be used toward a rating.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I just can't find where it says that it cannot be logged as total time. It does say that it may be counted as total experience, ie total time, under part 61 and therefore it is good as total time whether it is for certification or not. It just depends who is looking at the regs and how they want to interpret them. My point is that it is not illegal, just could be interpreted differently depending on who is doing the reg reading. If I was to go to an interview, I would just be sure to have enough flight time outside of the sim to meet the requirements and if they ask why I log it the way that I do, I would simply state the same references that I stated previously. They would either like it or they wouldn't...all I know, is that I would not be wrong, just under a different interpretation. The FAA has looked at my books many times, through type ratings and 142 courses, and never had a problem wth it, but I am sure that someday I will run across someone that does. Guess I already have!
I believe that it can and should be logged as total time. I have found another reason to support my opinion and that is 61.57...the fact that you may log landings (night and day) for currency using a sim. If I can log takeoffs, landings and instrument time, then I am logging total as well. Anything that is loggable in the logbook, is loggable as total time. It is all aeronautical experience. Then you break it down into its subcategories; ie sim, pic, night, sic, x-c, etc.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 11-03-2007 at 06:15 AM.
#28
Oh my gawwwwd.... You guys are part 121 pilots? Its a few drops in the ocean. Do you really think that a few hours in the sim every 6 months REALLY matters? If you are that hard up for time, pick up a day trip or something. No way anyone can dispute THAT as flight time
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Ok, I'm gonna come clean here: I keep track of my flight time by downloading crewweb into a spreadsheet after every trip.
A few years ago when I transferred all my FO time over to paper logbooks (getting ready for upgrade) I used one line for each "day" of flying. I left the Ship number column blank - its still blank. (check airman for type rating didn't care)
Now that I'm back at it again - transferring that is - and trying to get the log books ready for moving up and on, I'm suddenly concerned that I can't accurately put in the Ship numbers because often there is a swap in the middle of the day. Sometimes 2 swaps. How would you guys rectify this? If I use just the tail number for the ship I started the day in will that look laZy?
A few years ago when I transferred all my FO time over to paper logbooks (getting ready for upgrade) I used one line for each "day" of flying. I left the Ship number column blank - its still blank. (check airman for type rating didn't care)
Now that I'm back at it again - transferring that is - and trying to get the log books ready for moving up and on, I'm suddenly concerned that I can't accurately put in the Ship numbers because often there is a swap in the middle of the day. Sometimes 2 swaps. How would you guys rectify this? If I use just the tail number for the ship I started the day in will that look laZy?
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