This concept would also make for some interesting conversation over a glass of kool aid...

 

Gets it. Airplanes this size belong at mainline with a real mainline seniority number and career path. Not at a regional/contract carrier even with some phantom 'flow through/preferred hiring'.

 

Slicd and Saab.... I agree, but I dont believe thats the reality of todays airline business. Its sorta like like pandora's box.... once we/they went down this road , probably never going back. Instead of simply believing that -900 and the like dont "belong" at the National/Jet level (nothing regional about most of these companies anyways) carriers a more productive stance might be to find an appropriate wage level at these carriers for those aircraft. The business model of commercial airline companies has been changing for 15 years with more and more international and domestic long haul ( with some high load factor routes thrown in ) and smaller aircraft in general with higher frequency on domestic routes of 1 to 3 hours.

And Slice..... you speak with disdain as if some pilots shouldnt make a career of companies at this level, there are and will always be those that will do so and it is the RIGHT choice for them.

 

I agree that the cat's out of the bag and probably won't go back in. But it is only in the last couple years that these planes are coming onto airlines' lists. This is not some old problem. Believe me, I wish AWAC would get a part of the CRJ-900 pie as long as others are going to have them anyway. But I also strongly regret that this level of scope was conceded at the major carriers years ago when they thought they had nothing to fear from the RJ... These "Replacement Jets" have done little good for the industry IMHO.

But of course, as long as they will be around I would love to sit in one and earn a fair salary for it. No 50-seat pay for 90 seat jets.

Oh, and Mesa's survival? I am fearful that JO will find a way to survive. And this $80,000,000 judgement will be stuck in appeal for years. The bad guy always wins it seems in today's corporate culture.

 

I disagree that THESE planes have only been a problem as you put it the last few years. I flew for a REGIONAL ( when most of these companies really were just regional companies ) 15 years ago when our average seat capacity was probably less than 30. we flew Jetstreams, shorts, saabs... and a few ATR's. Seat capacity has risen for 15-20 years as this "model" has evolved. the -900 and similar sized aircraft is just the latest pushing of the envelope.

I agree the 80 million is probably years if ever from being realized and mesa will limp along. Although if they continue to bleed pilots as they are that could definitely put a different twist on things. Especially if they loose a major codeshare because of performance.

 

I appreciate your opinion, and I agree to get fair pay. Who wouldn't want to make more money?

I do have the inside scoop on this ordeal from an unamed source. From what I understand, the union is wanting mainline-type pay to fly these aircraft. The company is ready and willing to pay more, however the union wants an unreasonable figure. It would not be profitable with what the pilot group wants.

No offense intended, but many of you do not know a lot about the business world. You have to look at things from a business standpoint as well.

I am hoping that things get worked out and we get these aircraft. More aircraft means more flying and increased staffing, which means more lines and faster upgrades. I am here to get my PIC time and move on. Not that I don't like where I work, I do, but the regionals are no place for a lifelong career.

 

Well I DO come from a business background and can understand the business perspective of how these companies try to reduce labor costs in light of unions trying to raise rates for their members. The problem I see now as a pilot and that I saw in the business environment is in the effort to keep these costs low, companies lose sight of the fact that "labor" is not a static entity but a living, breathing emotional monster. They need to recognise a bit more that its not a cut and dry economic model that will keep your labor force happy, yet labor costs low. IMHO many of these companies (MAG seeming to be a huge violator of this) are tripping over a dollar to save a penny. Its the short-sighted vision of management that keeps labor in a constant state of unrest and unhappiness. Keeping your labor force happy may cost you a little more in the short term but the long term bottom line benefits are much higher. Most companies are too afraid to wait out the time that it would take to realize these benefits so its all short term thinking. Just look at the innovative companies that have provided their employees with a much more labor friendly environment. Many of them are at the top of their respective industries.

Just my .02 centavos

 

The ultimate problem with a regional career is that you are a subcontractor...you can be fired for cause (or none), underbid, and/or relocated with a few weeks notice at ANY time. One or more of these things WILL happen to you in the regional world. For me personally committing my family to a regional career would be irresponsible...getting established and settled in a certain lifestyle only to be uprooted (and possibly unemployed) at age 50 is no bueno. You can always hope to get lucky at a regional, and some people do, but that would be plan D for me.

Management loves this... the continous competetive dynamic at the regional level keeps costs (and salaries) ultra-low, and even serves to put wage pressures on mainline from below. You have more control of your destiny at mainline.

 

Perhaps they want "mainline type" pay because it's a "mainline type" aircraft...

 

Then mainline better fly it.... because at the level we are talking about... RAH, XJT, or whoever.... mainline rates are a distant dream. Does that make it right...no.... but right and reality are seldom spoken in the same breath in ANY business. Higher rates yes.......

As always Rick you make a good point.....but you must concede that there are those who just dont have the desire to PLAY at that level.. and some who CANT play at that level, are will thus be relegated to these carriers for their career.