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Old 12-25-2007, 08:40 PM   #1  
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Default VLJ SIC question

So lets say im sitting right seat in a CJ2 or an Eclipse jet for a part 91 gig. Can that time be logged as SIC? To follow up with that, would the regionals laugh in my face or take that as twin time? I already have 150 multi with 1400TT but i dont finish college for another year and a half and I need to keep current. Any feedback?
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:44 PM   #2  
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Depends on the type certificate of the airplane and the restrictions of the PIC's type rating. I don't know about the Eclipse, but the CJ2 requires two pilots unless the PIC has the specific single pilot authorization. If the PIC is not single pilot authorized then you are good to go. If the PIC is, then you would need to be operating the aircraft under 135 where two pilots are required by the ops specs.

Frankly with your experience, 3 takeoffs and landings every 90 days in a light twin would probably keep them happy so long as you have some other flying going on.
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:51 PM   #3  
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Maybe the PIC could give you "Dual". I've heard of people pulling that one off.
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:53 PM   #4  
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If the PIC is single pilot authorized then you can log the Part 91 "empty legs " in your logbook......iftwo pilots are required by the ops specs under Part 135 then you can log that as SIC if you are a 135 SIC if you have the checkride...i believe that is the case , correct me if i am wrong...CBIRE,hope you had a good Xmas, havent seen u on the forums lately Brotha!
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:45 AM   #5  
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You should be prepared to answer detailed systems questions about any aircraft you log as PIC or SIC. I always thought it was funny when I saw a Purdue grad come into an interview with 10 hours of time logged as KingAir 200 PIC. Being a grad myself, it always begged the question "ah, so you have 10 hours of BE20 PIC? Mind detailing the starting procedures for me? How 'bout deicing? No? What, you mean that despite the fact that you flew it two months ago, you aren't comfortable with the systems? Well, why did you log it PIC?"

I'll have you know that that attitude is not the norm for Purdue grads!

At least, I hope it's not.
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:00 AM   #6  
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I'm gonna say you can log it, but only under certain circumstances...
It requires a type rating to log PIC because it is a jet. Therefore, you may never log it as PIC unless you have that type rating.
If the airplane is operated under part 91 rules, you may log SIC.
If the airplane is operated under part 135 op specs, you may not.

If it's under 135 op specs, but you are flying an empty part 91 leg, then I'm not sure. You'd probably have to get an airline ticket just to get to the airplane to fly an empty leg anyhow, so it wouldn't be worth it.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:46 AM   #7  
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Thanks for the feedback guys. If anything, ill just log it as SIC. Its a part 91 and the PIC always tells me that I can log it as SIC no problem, but I wanted to look into it. The last thing I want to do if to blow another 6 grand trying to get twin time before an interview.
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:05 AM   #8  
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If you read the FAR's about logging SIC time, it says (I'm paraphrasing from memory, so do your homework...) you basically can log all the time you performed SIC duties in an airplane type certificated for more than one pilot, or if the operation's laws require more than one pilot, provided you've received the training required and done your 3 takeoffs and landings.

So, even though the pilot may have a single pilot authorization, that's something HE/SHE has, not the airplane.

I'm assuming here that the CJ2 and the Eclipse are 2-pilot airplanes, I don't actually know.

I was in the same boat a while back while doing some right-seat time in a citation SII with a pilot who had a single pilot authorization. As others have said though, know the systems for whatever airplane you log time in, and be able to answer questions about its operation, limitations, etc..
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:08 AM   #9  
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FAR61.51 - (f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

61.55 is too big to post, so here's the link: 61.55

As I read it, to log SIC part 91, the A/C must require an two pilots. If your CJ2 capt has the single pilot type rating, then you're not required and thus cannot log SIC time. If he does not have the single pilot type, then you ARE required and must meet the above requirements (SIC type or AMEL/Inst). However, if you're NOT required, and the PIC has an MEI, then you can log dual received. (I think you can log dual received even if he doesn't have an MEI as long as he doesn't exercise MEI privileges such as single engine training). Your Capt should know his limitations as a CFI and what he can legally log as dual given.

As far as I know, the CJ2 is a single pilot airplane, but the PIC must have a Single-pilot type rating. I'm pretty sure the Eclipse is the same way.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by BoilerWings; 12-26-2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason: correction
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:43 AM   #10  
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Log it as SIC, and note "safety pilot" in the comments.
FAR 91.109.
It's all about interpretation (sp?).
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