My perspective on Colgan's Growth
01-05-2008, 06:06 PM
#51
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by DMEarc
DONT FORGET- EXPRESSJET UNDERBID AWAC and SKYWEST for the DELTA CONTRACT.
01-05-2008, 06:11 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Originally Posted by Slaphappy
Yeah and they are losing money hand over fist.
01-05-2008, 06:12 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
theres 11 3/4 months left in 08 lets not count our chickens...
01-05-2008, 06:23 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
And last time I looked AA got rid of the Fokkers..... why..because the pilots didnt wanna fly the "little" jet for the rates the company was willing to pay......
01-05-2008, 06:26 PM
#55
Banned
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,192
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
So did Southwest (and every other airline for that matter) when they first started out. Maybe you didn't hear...XJT is on pace to make a profit in 2008
01-05-2008, 06:27 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 828
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
Good to hear that is the prevailing attitude over at Colgan. However, I do take issue with your last statement about ExpressJet "underbidding" AWAC and SkyWest.
There is a difference between "UNDERbidding" and "OUTbidding" someone. In the case of XJT and Delta there were several things that made XJT's bid more competitive than others. I think Delta realized that AWAC would not be able to get the operation up and running quickly enough due to the lack of airframes, crews and a presence West of the Mississippi. As far as SkyWest, there is a clause in SkyWest's contract with UAL that does not allow them to serve another carrier out of a UAL hub (such as LAX) unless that service is to/from the other carrier's hub (ie LAX-SLC for Delta). Delta wanted a carrier that could operate flights all over the West Coast and to Mexico from LAX so that would not have worked for SkyWest and United.
So what it came down to was that ExpressJet provided the airframes, quality of service and flexibility of operation in the time frame that Delta demanded. I would get your facts straight before you go accusing us (XJT) of UNDERbidding another pilot group. Now, if you want to accuse us of being more competitive with a reputation of flexibility and excellence, that is fine by me
There is a difference between "UNDERbidding" and "OUTbidding" someone. In the case of XJT and Delta there were several things that made XJT's bid more competitive than others. I think Delta realized that AWAC would not be able to get the operation up and running quickly enough due to the lack of airframes, crews and a presence West of the Mississippi. As far as SkyWest, there is a clause in SkyWest's contract with UAL that does not allow them to serve another carrier out of a UAL hub (such as LAX) unless that service is to/from the other carrier's hub (ie LAX-SLC for Delta). Delta wanted a carrier that could operate flights all over the West Coast and to Mexico from LAX so that would not have worked for SkyWest and United.
So what it came down to was that ExpressJet provided the airframes, quality of service and flexibility of operation in the time frame that Delta demanded. I would get your facts straight before you go accusing us (XJT) of UNDERbidding another pilot group. Now, if you want to accuse us of being more competitive with a reputation of flexibility and excellence, that is fine by me
Carriers like XJT are making it worse for those at AWAC and the better regionals. (I don't really mean that, but that is how this Colgan bull sounds to us who work here)
You know what XJT is going through now is what most regionals Comair, ASA, AWAC went through post-9/11. I wouldn't be surprised to see paycuts in XJT's future.
I hope to God it doesn't come to that, but that is my prediction. I think you're a great company- I really do, but I get drastically offended when you jetjocks begin to talk about Colgan's pilots and begin to put them in the scab or under-cutting category. Saaborowski know this isn't the case, our pilot group is amazing.
01-05-2008, 06:34 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: EMB 170/175 F.O.
Posts: 549
I gotta say, I like the Colgan guys. You guys are doing what works for you, and I applaud you for that. You guys have also been great to me whenever I've needed a ride. Special thanks to the crews that got me back and forth to AOO on the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th of December.
01-05-2008, 06:52 PM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: SAAB 340
Posts: 39
How about this. What does it matter what anyone else thinks. I know this board is a place for people to come and vent. But as stated, everyone has a beef with someone but no one wants to talk about it in person. I fly for Colgan for my own reasons. I enjoy flying for Colgan. I knew the Brewski back when he worked for Colgan and he was unhappy. That will put a damper on anyones life. A job is what you make of it, PERIOD. Saab seems to be happy at XJ so whats wrong with that. BE HAPPY. There will always be airlines trying to underct each other and them selves for that matter. It aint rightm its business.
What if we were all the same. I mean this kinda seems like what some people are after. We could all have the same pay scales and hiring minima regardless of aircraft. But then who would want to fly a Saab or a 145 or a 200. We would have a load of ERJ 190 pilots runing all over the place. It wont work. Competion is good.
As for the union, I do agree for the most part that a union is needed. But when we are ready we will get it. Colgan's management leaves a little to be desired (understatement). Though look at US Airways management team, they darn near ran a major into the ground.
There are alot of variables here and alot of different folks seem to have the right answer. So where in sam hill does this eave us?? AT EACH OTHERS THROAT
PS: easy there Joe
What if we were all the same. I mean this kinda seems like what some people are after. We could all have the same pay scales and hiring minima regardless of aircraft. But then who would want to fly a Saab or a 145 or a 200. We would have a load of ERJ 190 pilots runing all over the place. It wont work. Competion is good.
As for the union, I do agree for the most part that a union is needed. But when we are ready we will get it. Colgan's management leaves a little to be desired (understatement). Though look at US Airways management team, they darn near ran a major into the ground.
There are alot of variables here and alot of different folks seem to have the right answer. So where in sam hill does this eave us?? AT EACH OTHERS THROAT
PS: easy there Joe
01-05-2008, 07:02 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Originally Posted by DMEarc
You were cheaper, which means you underbid AWAC. AWAC had available airframs, so stop making stuff up when you don't know the facts bro. Many of FlyI's airplanes were still in the desert and AWAC was very close to taking these airplane for either the Midwest or Delta flying.
Carriers like XJT are making it worse for those at AWAC and the better regionals. (I don't really mean that, but that is how this Colgan bull sounds to us who work here)
You know what XJT is going through now is what most regionals Comair, ASA, AWAC went through post-9/11. I wouldn't be surprised to see paycuts in XJT's future.
I hope to God it doesn't come to that, but that is my prediction. I think you're a great company- I really do, but I get drastically offended when you jetjocks begin to talk about Colgan's pilots and begin to put them in the scab or under-cutting category. Saaborowski know this isn't the case, our pilot group is amazing.
Carriers like XJT are making it worse for those at AWAC and the better regionals. (I don't really mean that, but that is how this Colgan bull sounds to us who work here)
You know what XJT is going through now is what most regionals Comair, ASA, AWAC went through post-9/11. I wouldn't be surprised to see paycuts in XJT's future.
I hope to God it doesn't come to that, but that is my prediction. I think you're a great company- I really do, but I get drastically offended when you jetjocks begin to talk about Colgan's pilots and begin to put them in the scab or under-cutting category. Saaborowski know this isn't the case, our pilot group is amazing.
Now to address your accusation of XJT "under"bidding AWAC: having 10 year old airplanes that have been sitting in the desert that you are thinking about purchasing and refurbishing and pilots you are thinking about hiring and training (AWAC's situation) is quite a bit different from having relatively new, very capable (XRs baby!) airframes on property, crews trained AND a West Coast presence (meaning infrastructure in place). Add to that XJT's readily available ability to operate into Mexico, again with most of the infrastructure already in place, and you have a clear advantage over the competition.
01-05-2008, 09:17 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: A320/321 FO
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by DMEarc
Now about ExpressJet being in a bad situation, you're right. I wish you guys the best because it doesn't look the best. When is the next new hire class?
I just talked with a guy that was 9 months away from upgrade in EWR...and since the age 65 thing rolled in, his upgrade time went to 3 years!
...mines in 5 months STILL!
I know that's pish posh...but I just had to say that...reading this crap is making me sick!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
