MudPupppy

It's not that we undercut them, it's that even with the pilot shortages at the regional level we continue to slow progress in the industry for better rules and compensation. Even Mesa is beginning to discuss a new contract. The Q rate by us and lynx is a threat to hard working pilots. Even your future contract at CAL will be affected by Colgan.

Complaining about it on this forum won't solve anything. Saying Colgan will get a union won't do anything. Pilots need to learn that progress comes from action, not talking or complaining, and not from paying dues.

DMEarc

I completely agree, however- attacking Colgan's hard working pilots and calling them scabs is completely unprofessional and inappropriate.

People are making it sound like we're endorsing the Q pay rates. We're not- WERE STRONGLY AGAINST THEM.

MudPupppy

I don't think anyone has called us scabs....

Anyone who accepts a class in the Q is endorsing the Q payrates....Last time i checked they have enough captains bidding the Q to fill all positions.

I bet every single captain on the Q will complain about the rates, yet none will do anything but just that...complain...

JoeyMeatballs

Few key things here, I don't think anyone called you a "SCAB", and though you may not be endorsing the Q rates, your pilot group isn't protesting against them either. I sometimes wonder why our airline never got larger airplanes, and I think it is because management knows we wouldn't fly em for 50 seat rates, the Q rates are a 80 seat airplane for basically 35 seat rates............

Imagine if the Q's came on property and no one flew them........... Do you think your management would say "golly I guess we just won't fly em", I think they would maybe try to negotiate a higher rate. Problem is I am sure there are some Colgan pilots that have Q posters on their wall and probably the stupid airplane pic on their myspace page...............

How bout them Giants


Mudpuppy has it right, if you don't fly it, or refuse to, management has no other choice. It is amazing but some of you guys have no idea what a solid labor group can do...............

CAPIP1998

I don't really know why I'm going to subject myself to this savagery, but here goes anyway. First of all, in every job and at every company there are people that aren't happy. I see it everyday, people revel in being miserable and make it their daily mission to pass on their miserable existance to others. While this forum is an excellent source of information, please try to keep it to the facts and don't try to make other people as miserable as you are. That being said, I will admit openly that I recently accepted a FO position to fly the Q with Colgan, and this discussion (if you want to call it that) has caused me no little concern. While my reasons for accepting this position are mine and mine alone, I will share a couple of them with you for the purpose of the discussion.

1. I have over +1600TT and +60ME. I currently (as in right now, today) have applications out to AWAC, ASA, PSA, Comair, RAH, TSA, and Pinnacle. Know how many calls I have got from any of these other carriers? NONE. I am a good candidate with current IFR skills, 5+ years of CFI, and Master's degree.

2. I have a wife and a child on the way so my base is of primary concern. I need to stay in NYC area if at all possible. I am perfectly open to other opportunities, but they haven't come up. I would love to get a call from Comair, but it hasn't happened. How long should I wait?

I am not an ignorant person, and I am aware of issues at Colgan. Many people are upset about the Q400 pay, but most other of Colgan's so-called issues are not all that different from other companies. From my perspective I'm taking around a $50,000 (yes thats correct) pay CUT to resume my flying career so $2/hr or $0.75 difference in per diem between companies isn't really going to influence my personal decision that much. I also doubt very much that by my turning down the position Colgan will be so desperate that they will be forced to increase the pay rates to attract more pilots. Like I mentioned before I currently work as a manager in a company with a union, and I know VERY WELL the power of a unified work force. I am a firm believer in unions creating better working conditions for pilots and think that I will be able to help create better working conditions from within rather than from outside the company.

Anyway, there you go. Keep in mind that we are ALL trying to do whats best for our own families. I am going into this with an open mind AND open eyes. Feel free to blast away at me, but keep in mind, I don't believe everyingthing I read online

JoeyMeatballs

Well, think of it this way, you have barely 50hrs of multi and Colgan chose you to fly a 84 seat airplane, if it was the great a gig, you wouldn't be very competitive with your times...........ya see where I am going with this. You say you need to stay in the NYC area, well lets face it, there are plenty of regionals that have bases around that area, but I know I know they didnt call you, I can understand jumping on the first gig, but when I did that with Colgan I didnt know a thing about the industry and my times, 1200tt and 150multi wasn't too terribly competitive.

CAPIP1998

I don't want to start being argumentative, but I just want to get the facts straight. First, its a 74 seat airplane. Second, as everyone is so quick to point all, apparently ALL the regional airlines are hiring right now. Every airline I applied to has around 600/50, or 600/100 mins (highest is like 1000/100). So I either meet the mins or I'm close on multi and I way overshoot the TT mins. Let me leave you with this. After over 1200 hours of dual given in the NYC airspace, do you really think that 40 more hours in a seminole is going to improve my ability to fly a commuter that much?

JoeyMeatballs

thats my point.....................

CAPIP1998

Then why haven't they called me? I'd love to hear from some of them.

usmc-sgt

So me and the 7 other guys in my class are single handedly leading the charge to destroy aviation as we once knew it?

Now you tell me

I try to use a different logic. Time has proven numerous times that if I do not take the job then there are hundreds of pilots behind me that will not only take the job for the same or less money or even PAY for the priviledge to sit right seat. I took the job knowing that the payrates were no good and that there would need to be some change and it takes a pilot group to put a change in effect. Who is to say the the initial 75 FOs and 75 captains and the rest of the pilots at Colgan can not unite, vote in a union and take a stand and turn the company around? Has it been done before at other companies, yes. Can it be done again.......I guess we will find out.

Try and tell me I did not do my research, try and tell me that I only look out for myself, try and tell me that I do not care about the future of our profession. I show up for a hard days work like everyone else out there and its always easy to judge others when you do not know the facts.