Originally Posted by block30 (Post 1122889)

Did I miss something.....? This 'paying dues' mentality never never ends. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Flybywire89 (Post 1122800)

Taken From A JC Member:

It is no secret to anyone on this board, or trying to break in to this industry that Pilots wages are way lower than they should be when you consider not only the amount of money we need to invest to get our ratings. But the sheer magnitude of the responsibility and risks of our craft.

The problem is not the economy. The problem is not the airlines being cheap.

Look in the Mirror. The problem is YOU. The problem is, and always has been new pilots who "just want to fly". Its pilots looking for the yellow brick road to the magical land of the Majors.

When I started flying I received two bits of wisdom from pilots in the industry that I feel are golden. They are the following:

1) "Never take an opportunity that will deny you the next opportunity"

2) "Know what you are worth"

I have found that the majority of pilots in the job market today either dont know what they are worth, or worse, they know, but they knowingly sell themselves short just so they can get their foot in the door.

THESE DAYS HAVE TO STOP! This mentality has lead not only to low wages being standard, but they have lead to the creation of an entirely new breeed of insult to our proffesion. The Pay- For Time programs.

To all of you Pay For Time people, even considering the idea... Think about when you were a teenager trying to get your first job. Be it at a supermarket, babysitter or whatever. Do you think that you would have had a job if Jimmy from your math class went to the same establishment and said, "Dont pay John Doe to work here, I will do it and I will PAY YOU to allow me to gain experience."

The Pay For Timers send the message that we are so addicted to flying, that we not only will do it for free, we will shell out cash to live out our "fantasy" of commercial aviation.

Life is not a game. Every single Pay For Timer pilot takes the place of a potential actual JOB for a pilot out of work.

You cant blame the airlines for trying this, Management looks for ways to make money and like they said in the movie:
"If you build it, they will come" They are offering PFT programs, and for some reason, the Pilots continue to come... WE NEED TO BREAK THE CYCLE!

But what about other airlines that dont have a PFT. The ones who pay their pilots... We need to be SMART when looking for a place to work.

$24,900 Annually.

Thats the Annual Pay of somone who works long hours, taking his/her cargo from point A to Point B several times per day/night. Navigating in the dark, in all weather, abiding by the rules and regulations set by the transportation administration. They get there on time, because being late hurts performance numbers and will cause a reduction in overall business.

Yes, $24,900 for that.

Just to be a Pizza Hut Delivery Driver. (tips were included in this calculation, but I took an average hourly and tip rate that I found online, google it and see for yourself)

Now, lets compare that to just some of the Airlines:

Pinnacle: $23,400 ($1,500 Less than Pizza)

Comair: $19,800 ($5,100 less than Pizza)

CommutAir: $22,600 ($2,300 less than Pizza)

Silver Airways: $18,240 ($6,660 less than Pizza)

And my personal favorite...

Great Lakes: $14,400 ($10,500 less than Pizza Huts Delivery Driver)

* I am not knocking Pizza delivery men/ women. I am saying that when you take in to account the amount of investment it takes to become a Pizza delivery person, and the fact that if you crash your car, all you lose is an on time pizza delivery, as opposed to the lives of 70 people, Pilots should be paid more than you per their responsibility.

So, lets review....

You paid tens of thousands (some of you over a hundred thousand) in fees for your flight training. You are in debt. You understand advanced aerodynamics and take responsibility of hundreds of lives every day and you think that you are worth close to $10,000 less than the guy who delivers the Pizza?

Think about this the next time an airline calls you to interview.

Its time to set a minimum standard for hire at the airlines.

WE THE PILOTS are the ones to blame for allowing it to get to this point. WE THE PILOTS are the ones who have to put our foot down and change it.

We need to stop looking at it as the airlines have the planes that we NEED to fly. That is not the case. The truth is that WE the are the pilots who the airlines NEED to fly their planes.

So whats it going to be? What are you worth as a Pilot?

Originally Posted by AZbound (Post 1123011)

Get off your soap box and get back into your 172. Dear Lord. I hope I never have to share a cockpit with your ego, I mean, you. If you could have made it through training at Lakes you wouldn't be feeding us excuses and telling us about this "Epipheny" that you coincidently had in the middle of training after interviewing and accepting the job. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757 (Post 1123015)

AZbound - can you speak to the movement at GLA these days and how long a guy might be on reserve? Also, what base are they primarily hiring into and on what equipment? I know nothing is certain - but just curious as to what has been trending lately.

Originally Posted by AvPilot (Post 1123016)

How long are upgrades currently running now at Great Lakes anyways?

Originally Posted by 1900CA (Post 1123029)

There are several good options for crash pads at most of the outstation that range from $80 - $150 a month, as long as your not too good for an air mattress in a house/apartment where yo may have to share a room with someone else for 3-5 nights a month.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1123168)

Quoted for ridiculousness.

Originally Posted by Colonel S (Post 1123910)

Training contract is 15 months and yes if you get fired you would be required to pay it. However I would almost guarantee that if you stay for the contract you will have the opportunity to upgrade prior to 15 months. We do 3 and 6 month rides at lakes only for first year fo's. It is our way to monitor our new fo's. Training is hard because its usually your first 121 gig and what we do is more difficult than what other airlines do. I know what I'm talking about I worked at Skywest for 4 yrs and United for a few months(one of the 1437 furloughs).
Don't get me wrong you will work your tail off and get great experience but you will have some of the best times of your career. Unless you have a family member in the industry, and even if you do, you will meet the people that will help get you a job at a major. I have worked at lakes on and off for almost 10 years and if you have a good attitude and work ethic you aren't going to get fired. If you can't hand fly an airplane don't worry about the training contract you won't make it through sim, if you can and have a good attitude
you will probably upgrade in a short time.

Originally Posted by Airframe (Post 1124420)

What kind of times do you need right now for an interview? Do they consider anyone a little below the preferred mins of 750tt 50multi?

Originally Posted by Airframe (Post 1124420)

What kind of times do you need right now for an interview? Do they consider anyone a little below the preferred mins of 750tt 50multi?

Originally Posted by Airframe (Post 1124841)

I don't know anyone there...dang.

Let me know if anyone knows of any career fairs happening in any part of the country in the next month or two with GLA attending.

Originally Posted by 1900CA (Post 1123029)

I just left Lakes at the beginning of the year. Upgrades on the 1900 are back down to about a year with people willing to accept some of the junior bases (FMN, PRC, maybe CYS) and hovering around 1.5 to people who are holding out for DEN. As far as a new FO, from what I heard and saw most of the FO's that were awarded bases in either PRC or FMN moved to those bases full time and signed year leases on apartments. That being said there is a possibility that you could be able to hold DEN fairly quick if not right away. Most of the time as a new hire if you want back to DEN you can expect it to take 3 months. That is considering all your cards fall into place perfectly. There are several good options for crash pads at most of the outstation that range from $80 - $150 a month, as long as your not too good for an air mattress in a house/apartment where yo may have to share a room with someone else for 3-5 nights a month. One up side to an outstation base as opposed to DEN is that the lines in those bases are averaging around 85 hr of flying a month where most of the DEN lines are around 75 hrs.

Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757 (Post 1126852)

How do they guys in the B1900D drop a deucer at FL240 with no lav?

I know that sounds like a smart-alec question - but what if you seriously have to go and you have a plane full of passengers in the back?

Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757 (Post 1126852)

How do they guys in the B1900D drop a deucer at FL240 with no lav?

I know that sounds like a smart-alec question - but what if you seriously have to go and you have a plane full of passengers in the back?

Originally Posted by IrishFlyer757 (Post 1152030)

Any guys currently at Lakes have any feeling for the seniority of MSP as a base? Looking to go to Lakes at the end of this year and just wondering the possibility of MSP so I could live in-base.

Originally Posted by ThumperCO (Post 1152567)

End of this year? You're better off asking in October or November. We could base 10 aircraft there with 50+ crews then be out of MSP all together by then end of the year. Hard to say but as of right now, all the crews TDY'd out there are pretty senior because of the continuous per diem. Rumor is it will become an actual base sometime over the summer and will probably have junior and senior crews based there.

Originally Posted by gearcrankr (Post 1127216)

You drop a deuce in the FO's lunch pail. Then you wipe using part of your

tshirt. True story. It happened when I worked there from 94-97. DIK to DEN.

Originally Posted by BenS (Post 1155151)

Guys,

I just have to ask for some basic help. I have an interview coming with Great Lakes Airlines and was hoping maybe somebody had some pointers that might help land the job. I have read through gouges, am re-studying all the IFR regs, some 121 regs, doing youtube searches for anything interesting, reading their website about their routes, aircraft. I guess I'm just learning as much as I can about them before I get to go meet and interview.

This leads me to my questions; of the above mentioned things I am doing, does anybody recommend making sure I study something (such as if maybe they like asking who knows the number of Beech 1900D's in their fleet). Second, is there anything else that would be recommended as a study tool or guide that I might not be thinking about looking at. So far in my life I have been a flight instructor and I know there are a lot of people out there with a lot more experience than me, so I just want to go into this interview as prepared as possible and knowing as much as I can so that I stand the best chance of getting the job. Thanks again to all for your assistance.

-Ben

Originally Posted by johsclem (Post 1156344)

No problem. No, they just had some general questions about a multi (not too many and nothing beyond what was listed above). Overall, great people and the interview will be over rather quickly (less than 1.5 hrs. from the time you get to the Crowne Plaza to when you are done). If you have one of the early interview slots (such as 8:00 or 9:00 am), you should be able to book a flight for that afternoon out of Denver.

Originally Posted by BaronRouge380 (Post 1156350)

I haven't applied there but I am hearing the training is really hard and a lot of applicants wash out; is this accurate?
What would be the best way to prepare for it other than be IFR current and proficient?
Also, their planes have no GPS, no RNAV. How are the 1900's equipped? eHSI, RMI etc...
No AP, no FD too?
Thanks!