Looks like some ASA pilots will have some explaining to do...

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01-12-2008 | 01:25 PM

#41

N0315

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From: CFII

Go to AOPA.org, and the runwau incursion lesson on there has the ATC clip and an animated diagram showing what was going on. Good thing for the instruction.

01-12-2008 | 01:26 PM

#42

N0315

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From: CFII

For the one you guys are looking for anyways, not the one that just happened.

01-12-2008 | 01:27 PM

#43

JetJock16

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From: SkyWest Capt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

Repeating taxi instructions is SOP at CX, it is a smart thing to do. However, taxiing the airplane is not solely a Captain thing here either. Whoever is doing the leg is who taxis so it is just good airmanship to make sure everyone is on board with the taxi instructions.

OK, but to have an FO constantly repeating instructions that you have already acknowledged and repeated once, is another story. If he or she constantly repeats the instructions while expecting you to repeat them every time and you’ve given him or her no reason for concern, that’s a problem. If my CA’s approaching a runway or any restriction then I’m always aware of the visual cues that can tell me his intent. If the cues that I’m receiving tell me he does not plan of complying with the restriction then I will repeat them and if he continues then I will softly come up on the breaks or do whatever has to be done to comply while continuing to respect my CA's authority.

It's a fine line and you need to know how to walk it.

Last edited by JetJock16; 01-12-2008 at 03:30 PM.

01-13-2008 | 07:42 AM

#44

reelbigchair

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From: 757/767 FO

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

I'm not insinuating that it's bad practice for everyone to be heads up and paying attention on the ground.... BUT with the captains I've flown with, expecting/demanding the captain practice the F/O's technique probably wouldn't go over very well.

01-13-2008 | 08:00 AM

#45

POPA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by reelbigchair

You're just not being assertive enough. For those who wish to make the CA do their bidding, just take my approach*:
"Do things my way, or I will punch you right in the head. Then, I will declare a medical emergency, divert, and quit when we land. I'll JS home, and you'll be stuck in the middle of nowhere. How ya like them apples?"

*POPA assumes no liability for anything that may happen as a result.

01-15-2008 | 09:13 AM

#46

flyifrvfr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16

Whose in charge?

There's a fine line between being respectfully remindful and becoming a nuisance. If he's giving you reason to then that's another thing, but every time? Just pay attention to what he's going and speak up when it's needed.

You totally misread my post. Once a hold short instruction is given to me, the Captain repeats the instruction. This makes certain we are on the same page. I remind the Captain of the hold short instruction just prior to reaching that point. The Captain is in charge of the aircraft and crew, but I am in the same aircraft he is in as he crosses infront of a Delta jet after failing to heed instructions. If this is a nuisance too you than sooner or later we will read about you because you were too cool to speak up.

01-15-2008 | 09:15 AM

#47

flyifrvfr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by reelbigchair

You expect him to?? ok boss

Yes I do, because if he doesn't repeat it then he is in violation of the company FOM. Will I report him for it, no way! But I will make certain we never miss a taxi instruction.

01-15-2008 | 09:19 AM

#48

JetJock16

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From: SkyWest Capt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyifrvfr

Here you go, just incase you didn't see it. This is after you've followed SOP on the initial clearance acknowledgment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16

If my CA’s approaching a runway or any restriction then I’m always aware of the visual cues that can tell me his intent. If the cues that I’m receiving tell me he does not plan of complying with the restriction then I will repeat them and if he continues then I will softly come up on the breaks or do whatever has to be done to comply while continuing to respect my CA's authority.

It's a fine line and you need to know how to walk it.

01-15-2008 | 09:37 AM

#49

flyifrvfr

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JetJock16

Here you go, just incase you didn't see it. This is after you've followed SOP on the initial clearance acknowledgment.

Once again, it is in the company FOM that the Captain must repeat a hold short instruction. I follow along using the airport diagram to make certain that we are following the taxi instructions. If we are given a hold short instruction, I once again remind the Captain as we are close to that hold. The Captain always repeats it because I and the airline expect it. I have not flown with a single Captain yet who was upset at me for having his back.