You would think so, being that Mgmt is so bent on giving us rates for the Jungle-Bus, and lousy ones at that...but my understanding was that the flying would be at-risk. Why would WN care then?

I didn't know that that rumor as still around. It's been quite a while. But if it is true, more power to whomever. I'm all confused at this point.

So if its voted down, we do what? We have nothing to leverage. They can do whatever the hell they want.

Yep...they'll do what they like regardless! But we can still be comfortable, I think, because whatever they do, it won't be a paycut...That's the important thing. I'm just incredibly disappointed in Jerry and SAPA at the moment. But, I still wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

We'll get a new pay proposal in about 3-6 months that has the same bottom line affect after they message the numbers up and down, here and there until it passes. That's exactly what they did last time.

Yes, I'm very disappointed as well but I strongly feel there isn't a better regional out there, that's just my opinion.

I'm not making excuses, but 9/11 did change things. I'm all for ANY pilot group making big gains, but I'm not sure what's going to be feasible.

I did not say I was happy with the SKW package, only that it was what I expected under the circumstances (no union).

i don't think the jungle bus things mean much, maybe they do. skywest in 2003 had pay rates for planes up to 159 seats,, and that never even came close...

Jerry and gang are just dotting some "i"'s and crossing some "t"'s. Who knows if the SWA rumor has any merit, I doubt it.

You won't see me holding my breath.

Well, I saw my name brought up a few times, but I just got in from MKE. That document that was posted is the one I physically compiled last night with our negotiated data.

For me, I'm disappointed, as we actually LOST ground recently in relation to what I thought we had agreed to. Delaying the vote further (from an initial Jan 1 goal) was not an option. I did vote to send this to the pilots.

First, for all the "union is the answer" folks.... if we had a "union contract", we wouldn't even be having this thread, 'cuz there wouldn't be an amended pay raise.

And for the folk(s) claiming that 20 year SAPA reps are just greasing their palms with the top end pay scale; I'm still on first year pay for a few more weeks, and the 2nd year increase is 000000.32%. Every time I jump into a 700 or 900 for the next few weeks will be at a STRAIGHT 200 rate.

Will I vote for it? Yes. It's not an emotional decision for me. It is more money, and for the majority, it's thousands of dollars more. And the company didn't have to offer it.

Is it what I thought it would be? No. It's bizarre that in a tiny number of situations, there is actually a small pay REDUCTION. And it doesn't meet or exceed ASA across the board, which I felt was an important mental barrier.

You guys argue unions, SAPA / SKW screwed ya, etc. I'm going to bed.

Unless of course you factor in inflation, in which case you're losing about 2% of your spending power every year.

Or if you're a first year guy flying the 7/9. Or any number of other odd circrumstances.

The COLA doesn't match today's inflation, and I suspect tomorrow's inflation. But, we currently have ZERO COLA through Dec 2010.

Also, to another post, the 170/175 jungle jet happens to match the seat count (give or take) the CRJ-700/900. Since we currently have a 51-99 seat rate, naming those planes precludes an E190/195 from showing up to be flown at the same rate. That's why we named it.

Had we just said 90 (or 88) seats or less, we could still fly a B717. Not that I would having think that would happen, but ya gotta cover your bases :o

Help me TonyWilliams, you're my only hope.

That's interesting. What happened there?

I guess I'll start using 84% in cruise more often now.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit lost here...you're going to vote YES to fly a DC9 aircraft for 50 seat pay? Explain to me again how this is the right thing to do for you, for your fellow brothers and sisters flying at SKW, and for the industry as a whole?

Yea, I'm feeling so generous I might be convinced to chip in on gas once in a while. Maybe one fill up a trip, nothing crazy.

I wonder if I'd get in trouble if I siphoned out some jet fuel to run in my truck...

You misunderstand my friend. 84% torque i.e. max allowable in cruise. :p I'm feeling betrayed so I'll burn a bit more of Uncle Jerry's petrol. Of course it doesn't help the situation. Why should I care? They don't.

Man i swear we had this conversation 2 or 3 times back in november. Like Skywest would not give up anything better then matching what ASA has been given. Skywest wants animosity between the groups and they will give you guys just enough to sway the nonunion vote. I still swear that if both groups were union we would all be sitting in a much better place right now! We would have been the largest regional pilot group in the country and would have been able to negotiate a great contract. I just don't understand how skywest pilots don't see this, I hope that if it ever comes to vote again people will take a better look at it. ASA pilots respect Skywest pilots and we would much rather be working with you then pitted against you.

If it's a diesel, should work great.

Umm...just because you have a "union contract" doesn't preclude any "amended pay raise." Ever heard of LOAs? Contracts are amended all the time before its "section 6" amendable date! This is very important to understand. Just because you have a contract with an amendable date X years in the future does NOT mean you can't improve it before then. Just look at XJT's contract for example. They amended their contract TWICE in 2006 that INCREASED pay rates and improved work rules two years before its amendable date. And chances are that it may get amended again in the pilots favor.

Also, you are right. The company didn't have to offer it. But you have no recourse without a contract and the provisions of the RLA that go with it. You have no leverage, no ability to self help and therefore no means to real good faith bargaining.

Best case scenario, vote for union representation next time around.:D

Good night and don't let the bed bugs bite!

You already had a no vote that sent a very clear message. Sorry, couldn't resist.

You don't want a contract that only matches current standards. Your contract needs to be able to at least match inflation over the next years. No reason to vote for something that will only bring you to current standards while the rest go for the future. It's like the company is asking you to "live in the now" for the next several years. Look ahead. Vote ahead.

Ahh, I assumed that you were happy and instead of slowing down for more $$ you were keeping the speed up because now you don't need the cash. Got it.

Anyway, back to my original question. What happened with the SAPA talks? Tony said, "... we actually LOST ground recently in relation to what I thought we had agreed to."

It sounds like there was an agreement and then management just changed there minds afterwards regardless of the agreement. Am I reading this incorrectly? I know an agreement without a union is basically worthless but this still sounds a little back handed.

I guess they agreed on 23 an hour for new hires at the denver meeting and now its 22. at least thats what i read on the sapa forums. i think.

For ALPA and I was at an ALPA carrier prior to SKW.

Jet fuel doesn't have the lubricants needed unless you're using military grade. Theirs does so they can order one shipment and put it in everything from an F-16 to a humvee.

Agree, but even if we did vote in ALPA, I think Jerry and gang would have kept us separate so they could still pit us against each other.

I think we, all of us, had this exact conversation 2-3 months ago. That was then and this is now, so let’s leave it in the past.

Best of luck in the future and we’ll see how this all played out in 5 years.

WAHOO you guys get $22 NOW for new hires......really setting standards Skywest.... man I am so jealous I dont work there. now like 10 skw people post why I Should be jealous I dont work there

Your Pay Was Rearranged!
 

You keep up the good work. Again, my point in proven that SAPA has no bite to it's bark. Management just rearranged your pay rates for the most part rather than raising them. Weren't you claiming a 30-40% pay raise? Looks like you guys at SAPA, which is a lame duck association, can raise the victory flag.

Go ahead, tell me ALPA wasn't for SKYW or what little they've done at Mesa or TSA. What you fail to understand is ALPA consists of local chapters which in some very obvious cases have been very weak. Imagine if SAPA has some legitimacy and actually had legal grounds to bargain.

I love it how you say "Will I vote for it? Yes.." Dont you understand again, your management is doing nothing more than letting you going through the motions? If they said today "this is your new rate", you have ZERO say in the matter.

Again, SAPA is a lame duck association. SKYW management has to have some sort of union-looking group to make the pilots feel like they hold some sort of collective bargaining power. I have news for anyone that thinks this is the truth. I am glad to see they removed your 700/900 over ride since it's apparent SKYW is on the move towards more of these as opposed to the 200.

Go ahead now and spin it to your favor. You all got ripped off and cant say a damn thing about it to your management.

Tail between legs, head down, keep walking.

I still gotta say that even though I don't often agree with Tony Williams' thoughts on unionism, I am continually amazed that anybody has the stones to post their REAL NAME with their personal and professional thoughts and opinions on an internet message board.

Kudos to you, sir. I'm not a SKW pilot nor ever was, but I appreciate your information and candor.

yeah that is what a new hire here at pinnacle makes with our 8 year old contract.... of course 2nd year pay is beyond a joke, so i cant say much there.

and tony no offense man but you are just one of the pawns of sapa.. the core of sapa is a bunch of guys that have been there FOREVER... they let a few new guys in because they feel like they can control them easier, hence your yes vote to send this to the pilots. if you would have voted no they still would have done it without you... like someons saying on here goes.. power isn't being able to choose, its giving the options.

Paok, now I mean this is the nicest possible way, because I certainly would not want to rock the boat and not be your special friend anymore LoL...;) Plus ya'll at Comair have done great things for us at every Regional...

You can't look at just hourly compensation (for the billionth time). I thought I was taking a paycut coming here (previously made $22 at TSA), when in fact I have made nothing short of a killing in comparison. The hourly-rate is only there for the uninformed to balk at. At TSA I would have been lucky to break even $20K for the year. Here I will be very close to, if not over, $30K - with more time off as well.

And some would also rather be here at $19, holding a line from day one, with great work-rules and some rigs, than somewhere else at a few bucks more, making monthly guarantee and not flying...Again, Paok, nothing personal 'cause I'm still your guy :D!!

Okay 1/10 people telling me why I should be jealous, I know I Can get 9 more.... thanks experimentalAB

ps I know its not all about hourly wage. Look at mesa's they dont look all that bad, but in reality........

but hey Id be embarrassed by your NEW payscales..... we make that and it was a bankruptcy payCUT

I certainly am a bit embarrassed, but then again, it was also the product of sham bargaining over the period of only a few months. After sleeping on it (and a couple cups of coffee this morning!), I can say it still bothers me, but you've got to see both sides of it.

Your 800 lbs burn per hour pretty much means nothing, sorry.

Pretty pathetic. I got nothing on the EMB, and this is just another slap in the face. I voted yes for ALPA and no for the previous jokes the presented. I will vote yes for this one, but only because I am leaving.

OK, so all the SKW pilots on here are in agreement (except Slapjerky) that we're voting NO for this pay proposal (myself included). But how many of us are delusional enough to think this isn't going to pass. I mean, just look at it, if the last one passed which included 0% for Bro pilots, 1% for RJ and a BS BHO (WEAK!!!!!!); what makes you think this one wont. It's 3 times better seeing it's 1.8% for Bro CA's, NOTHING for Bro FO's other than first year (I know, they expect you to transition but some don't), 13% for first year with no BHO and no COLA, 2.5-3% average for RJ and a reduction in BHO all this a BS 1% increase per year for what they CALL COLA (more that Cokaaaaaa…….). It's sad but it will pass by 65+%.

BTW, get a load of the BRO FO raise..............ZERO!!!!!!!

What unity! :confused:

Thanks TW (I mean no personal offense); we all knew that SAPA had no bark and no bite but you all just showed us you have no BALLS!!!!!!!!! :eek:


LONG LIVE THE KING (Jerry)!!!!!! :D LOL!!!!!!

JetJock16 - we're all still Jerry's kids though, you know that! :D LoL