You XJT flamers make me laugh! What hypocrites! LOL!

Honest question, no flame.

How are they hypocrites?

Im confused?????:eek:

Thanks for making it very clear to me why you vote down ALPA and think your management is ****. No problem though, we'll keep paying our Union dues so you can have your management semi-match what we have.

Skywest Rules!!!

Guys this isn’t hard, just because XJT has a good contract and their represented doesn’t mean their not being hypocrites when they come on here and tell us we’re think about us and only us. Life at its most basic element is personally driven. You guys are on here bashing us for voting on what we feel is best for us and our future but in the end that’s what we all do and that's why I said "what hypocrites." Spin it how you will, that you’re always think about the industry but that’s just flaming. You believe whatever helps you sleep at night and we’ll do the same but get over it.

Yes this pay proposal is weak but when you sit down and calculate all of our bonuses and not having to pay 1.95% (yes it's deductible so enjoy your $100 at the end of the year) this proposal ends up being ASA plus 4-12% dependent on you year and seat. But because we have a lot of soft pay you guys don’t see it and you continue to wine and moan.

I voted YES for ALPA, as did many of my brethren, because I thought that it was best for me and my future. Others felt different, hey that’s they’re opinion and now I’m forced to deal with my groups decision but don’t bash us for making our decisions based upon what right for us, our futures and our company. You guys do the exact same.

I'm not making excuses for my brethren voting down ALPA but even though I disagree I still respect them and I always well, just as I respect all of you. BTW, stop assuming that because the ALPA drive failed that we all voted no.

Fine now get over it.

Last time I checked Skyway has ALPA and how much has ALPA helped them now. One of the most stressful things in a person's life is finding a new job. So I guess the good thing to do if you are a Skyway guy is not apply at Skywest since we do not have ALPA representation. We can't protect you at Skywest like ALPA protected you at Skyway with your job. Last time I checked Comair has ALPA as well, and last time I checked in March they took a major pay reduction. Skywest is at least getting a pay increase and I can guarantee they will never go out of business and will never furlough anyone. I welcome all Skyway guys to apply and get a job at Skywest and you can see firsthand what a good company is and how you will be treated here.

Total Garbage, it sure happened at my last ALPA carrier, much worse than at SKW.

MEC's are always old guys (just like SAPA) and tend to be biased towards the old-guy point-of-view. Just human nature in action, not unique to SAPA or ALPA.

This is particularly true at the regionals, where the FO's are young, inexperienced, and mostly worried about their iPod and getting laid on Friday.

ALPA is not a magical, mythical, holy institution. It's just an organization, subject to all of the usual failings of human endevours everywhere. It has an advantage in collective bargaining, but that's about it.

Let's summarize...you say ALPA does NOT bias towards the old guys: Two words for you pal...

1) Prater
2) Age 65

Q.E.D

This is why, if for no other reason, 100% of SKW pilots should vote against the new payscale. Even if management implements it anyway, at least it will show solid unity amongst the pilot group.
Oh wait, there is no unity - and I'm not talking about just at SKW. I see it at every airline, and management loves it. Here at RAH, some pilot groups were offered a pay override for overtime, and nobody else was. AT SKW, 120 pilots don't get pay raises while the jet pilots do. I'm sure you can all find some example of it at your company. For being a bunch of unionized employees, we sure don't act like it.

I'm hurt....seriously:) go post by the way!

I really hope this is some heavy sarcasm that I'm not picking up on.
If the movie An American Tail taught us anything, it's to "never say never."

I was actually wrong, the Bro FO's did get a raise, not much of one but they did. I'm still voting no for the proposal but just know that they got a raise.

your hurt?? man after reading your last post i am suprised anything phases you. you told those guys over there that lost their jobs that it was alpas fault for not protecting them and that they shouldn't come to skywest either because you are non union. i love how you think it is so funny to be a smart a,, when people will be out of work in a couple months, and all you can come back with is "see alpa didn't help you there".. lets review what you wrote shall we??

yeah it must be real fun to kick the guys while they are down.. and you can GUARANTEE that skywest will never lose any flying or have to furlough???? wow man how long have you been in the industry,, are you even out of groundschool?

pps, you do know that pinnacle is going to be doing all your 900 flying out of atlanta by the end of the year dont you?

No flame here. Sorry if it was taken that way. I simply believe that you guys could push for more, which would benefit the rest of us as well. As I said, I have many friends at SKW (more so than I have at XJT), and honestly wish the best for everyone over there.

I want what you're having. :D

Well then, I retract my comment about voting the scale down. However, I stand by my statement about pilot unity.

First of all my brother is cognitively disabled and in a home with other cognitively disabled adults and children and has been for the last 17 years so lets just ignore the fact you threw around the word "retard" and that didn't phase me. And if you take a look.... I told the Skyway guys to come apply at Skywest because we will welcome them with open arms. Was I sarcastic....of course. Maybe it is because every time I walk by a Skyway guy in MKE and VERBALLY say "how's it going" or "How are you doing" or "hello" they 9 times out of 10 they say nothing back...not even a nod of the head or acknowledgment. They give us attitude. I understand, they are mad at Skywest for taking their flying, fine....good, I understand, but now they are out of a job and need places like Skywest to help them. Also....I applied at Skyway, interviewed and was hired by them but I turned them down because back in May they openly told me the future at Skyway was in doubt so I chose Skywest because for one it is one of the best and I can be based in MKE. So now all of you Hillary Clinton clones can take your paper thin skin and write me back all of the hating replies you want, but nothing does phase me because I am happy, my wife is my sugar momma, I don't need the money, I love to fly, I love Skywest, and will always be happy.

Well isn't life nice....god forbid you're ever on the wrong end of a loss of flying..but hate to tell you, most people DO need the money...while that's not an excuse to be rude, their frustration is obvious to everyone else besides you.

Not a good way to make friends in a very small community.

Jealousy is the worst, I feel for you guys, don't be jealous of me, help yourself:)

Fact Skywest is a Great Outfit but it is STILL a REGIONAL and can and will Loose Flying from time to Time,

A Regional is a Regional is a Regional dont let it get to your head

PPS as far as ALPA is concerned I hope you get to a Legacy Carrier who is ALPA represented take that attitude to Said CArrier and see how far you will Get..Cheers

Its not being a hypocrite to come on here and tell you what we think. If anything is more of a "I told you so.";) Its just that some think Skywest pilots made a mistake and now its showing. Sure everyone makes decisions on whats best for them and some of those people also think that Skywest in making a decision on whats best for them, think it was the wrong decision (this happens at union cariers as well when a vote on a TA or LOA comes up, everyone has their opinions and it doesn't mean that anyone is a hypcrite). A decision that affects the industry whether they admit it of not. I don't think that is being hypocritical. Its just an opinion that people think Skywest made a mistake. I'm sure everything will work out but Skywest pilots will not get as much as they deserve and thus continue to "ride the coat tails," for lack of a better phrase.

You guys deserve so much better than ASA+4-12% or whatever your calculations are without the ALPA dues. And that is my point. Skywest is relegated to settle for parity rather than going for XJT+3%, for example and thus setting the bar higher.

You guys should get the respect you deserve and its too bad that some don't give it to you. But like I said, and I'm not making excuses either, there is a lot of animosity for Skywest because people think they made the wrong decision and it affects us all.

By the way, ALPA and its 1.95% that goes along with it, is so much MORE than just having bargaining power to help increase pay. So its not an apples to apples comparison anyways.

Oh, and I don't assume everyone voted against ALPA. I assume its about 65% that voted against ALPA.

ALPA does not run any airline. ALPA cannot guarantee that there will never be any furloughs. ALPA cannot guarantee that the airline will never go out of buisness. That is not the job of ALPA. That is the job of management. ALPA cannot do anything about inept management (Im not saying Skyway has inept management because I don't work there and thus dont know), bankruptcy, or another terrorist attack. But I can assure you ALPA will not be able to do anything for Skywest pilots if they fire, furlough, liquidate, or otherwise stop employing you. ALPA does help those people at other ALPA carriers get jobs at other ALPA carriers. For example, when IndyAir went out of business, ALPA convinced XJT to give preferential hiring to IndyAir guys. And now we have a ton of them here. We are in the process of doing the same for Astar and Im sure Skyway is not to far behind as well.

Its not about just pay rates increasing. Skywest is arguably thee most profitable regional. Then why are you settling for nothing less then thee highest pay rates?

Your reps were democratically elected and can be recalled or not voted in on the next election. They also have emails and phone numbers for you to call them and tell them how you feel about a certain issue. Did you ever vote? Did you ever email your rep? Did you ever call your rep? Did you ever attend you local council meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the local council meeting? Did you ever attend an MEC meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the MEC meeting? Did you ever volunteer? Did you ever run for a rep position? Did you subscribe to all the blastmails?

My MEC is NOT a bunch of old guys. And its probably not as much as you think at other MECs in the regional industry. In any case, like I said, everyone can tell them how they feel.

My MEC, for example, tends to look at what is best for our pilots as a whole and not just a certain demographic. It understands that pitting one demographic against another is not conducive to unity. And sure, no matter what they do, not everyone will be happy. Its just a matter of electing the right people and getting the wrong people out at the next election or recalling them.

You are right about ALPA not being "a magical, mythical, holy institution. It's just an organization, subject to all of the usual failings of human endevours everywhere." But it is a whole lot more than having bargaining power! But even if that was it, it sure would help you to have that power right about now.;)

By the way, Im 33 and favored changing the age 60 rule. It was inevitable. So even if you were against it, it was advantageous for ALPA to change its policy on age 60 in order to mitigate its effects when legislation was being written. I think ALPA was very successful in that regard.

I thought we were professionals? Every time I get on the forums now days all I hear is this “my regional is better than yours” bs. I’m embarrassed for you.

As far as the pay proposal goes I will vote no. I consider it a slap in the face with the 1% cost of living increase. More smoke and mirrors. Sapa did you push for a continuation of the bho or is that what you were given to present to us?

And for all you new hires remember you don’t get the bho until you finish your first year. Guess this is your reward for keeping the evil ALPA out.

My dad can beat up your dad!:D

SAPA didn't push to either retain BHO, or try to eliminate the current pay structure, which is in effect until Dec 2010, and was voted in by the pilots in Nov 2006.

The pay proposal does increase pay for an overwhelming majority of the SKW pilot population.

The beauty is that YOU GET TO DECIDE !!! Vote early, and vote often !

The $22 pay rate for first year jet FO's far surpasses the old pay rate of $19.50 plus 6% BHO.

Yes, it'll be the same rate for the first year, but more money overall.


FIRST YEAR FO RATES TO FLY "BIG" RJ's

....................CURRENT.........//......PROPOSED
..............2008...2009...2010..//.2008...2009....2010
1st year $20.67 $21.13 $21.60 //$22.00 $22.00 $22.00

I agree in that I think age 60 no longer made sense, particularly since it was enacted not by a safety agency conducting due process, but in a corrupt deal between AA's C. Smith and some congressional buddies...in order to get rid of highly paid senior CA's :mad:

I also think 65 is about the right cutoff age, although large medical advances might extend that someday.

However, a large majority of ALPA rank-and-file was opposed (obviously for career reasons), and I think the Prater should have gone with their desires. Unions don't exist to "do the right thing", they exist to look after the interests of their members. Personally I think ALPA should have pushed for a gradual phase-in which would have dampened the short-term impact....unfortunately that might not have allowed all the Uber-senior alpa leaders to stay past 60.

Oh, and all that crap about more stringent and frequent medicals for all pilots wasn't going to happen anyway...the whole point of this exercise is to avoid a pilot shortage....the ATA would not have allowed medical requirements which would ground 5-10% of the pilot force. :rolleyes:

It wasn't a large majority. It was about 57/43 split according to scientific polling of members. And about 80% said they would support changing the policy if it was inevitable to keep the age 60 rule as is.

It was in the interest of the members for ALPA to change its policy in order to mitigate the effects seeing that the FAA had already started the NPRM process and there were multiple bills in congress working their way to the presidents desk.

And it wasn't just opposing more stringent medicals. It was also about 'opposing any attempt by the FAA to obtain greater access to pilot medical records, supporting FAA Air Surgeon Tilton’s recommendation to require a 1st Class Medical certification every six months for pilots over age 60, prevent retroactive application of a change to the Age 60 rule, ensuring stronger liability protection for airlines and pilot unions in implementing a change to the rule, ensuring that, under a defined benefit retirement plan, a change to the Age 60 Rule will not reduce a participant’s or beneficiary’s accrued benefit nor reduce a benefit to which a participant or beneficiary would have been entitled without enactment of such a change to the rule, opposing for domestic operation the implementation of the ICAO standard that at least one pilot in the cockpit be under age 60, and support the ability of a pilot to retire prior to the mandatory age without penalty.'

ALPA has been sucessful in all but one of those and has been successful in introducing the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation Pilots Equitable Treatment Act and the Lost Retirement Act (S2505, S1270, HR4061, and HR2103) to take care of the last issue.

Just curious, why didn't SAPA push to eliminate the BHO?

Either you have a very warped sense of humor, or you don't know the history behind this quote.

As was said before, Bro FOs got the same pay raise as the CAs. 1.8% initially followed by 1% per year.

i couldnt read this forum.... too tired of "waaah waaah waah your airline sucks"

good luck to all skw pilots! I hope you can all work on better pay rates. Better pay for you means better pay for everyone else. Dont settle for this BS deal. You might not be organized or have official "leverage" but you can always throw a wrench in your own operation to show management your a unified pilot group. good luck

You forget SkyWest has a chicago base, we chicagoans understand vote early and often really well :D

As was said before, tool box, tool box, G@@ our bend over backwards/concessionary was 2.5. way to set the industry standard guys, say hi to Jerry for me.

Know what inflation is?

4% last year... and 2.5 OR so is avg... 1% raises means you are losing buying power..... Good luck what ever you guys at SKW decide.

Oh, I know you get it. It's your coworker I'm worried about. His posts seem to be .... on again, off again! :p

I know 1% is absolute BS but which regionals getting 3%-4%/yr for inflation?

I want AT LEAST 2%/yr.

XJT gets 3%. You should be asking for no less!;)

Ahhh yes, let the Mesaba guy throw the first stone. Nothing like a CRJ-900 CA making less than a 145 CA at CHQ, xjt, or CRJ200 at SKW(including their work rules and benefits), Air Whiskey, CRJ700 at ASA(again work rules still better), Compass on their 175s, etc. Smells like hypocrite!!! Probably shouldn't pipe up like that since the SKW guys still walk all over your current contract. You do run neck and neck with Gojets though!

RAH contract that was just amendable and was 4 years old had a 2% escalation to it each year. 3% should be the bare minimum as that is probably very close to historic averages for inflation.