Pinnacle Negotiations
02-02-2008, 12:03 PM
#22
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,524
He's not badmouthing the 9E pilot group, and he's really spot-on in his analysis.
Its the delivery that is somewhat lacking.
When 9E pilots really get ****ed off and start a safety campaign on their own initiative en masse, you'll likely see movement because of the pressure it would place on management. Until the pilot group unifies in that manner (and that's nothing the MEC can suggest) as NWA and ASA did, don't expect much to change.
You wanna know what would make every regional come to a crawl in any given day? PUT THE CELL PHONES DOWN.
Its the delivery that is somewhat lacking.
When 9E pilots really get ****ed off and start a safety campaign on their own initiative en masse, you'll likely see movement because of the pressure it would place on management. Until the pilot group unifies in that manner (and that's nothing the MEC can suggest) as NWA and ASA did, don't expect much to change.
You wanna know what would make every regional come to a crawl in any given day? PUT THE CELL PHONES DOWN.
02-02-2008, 12:44 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by Squawk_5543
Ok well here's a thought.....go somewhere else!! Your going to make no friends here bad mouthing a pilot group. And I'm curious where have you obtained all your ultra industry knowledge?
My ultra industry knowledge(
), comes from doing lots of reading and research. Not believing one single source, but gathering information from many sources, and making my own conclusion.
02-02-2008, 02:46 PM
#26
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B777ER
Posts: 13
If we want a contract we as pilots (not the Union) need to give this company the ontime performance and completion factor they deserve. And believe me it is not hard to do. The amount of incompetence in this operation (ramp,Dispatch,MEL documentation,Load numbers,etc)gives a pilot plenty of opportunities to sit on his/her hands for a couple of minutes until the flight is delayed. I have less than a 50% ontime performance over the past 4 months. I do not do anything illegal, against company policy or FAR's to get that. If all pilots did that our management would cave in a month. Remember that the only way our stock price goes up is if we get more airplanes. There is more Delta flying down the pipe that management wants, so they can not afford any drop off in performance until an Air Seervice Agreement for more airplanes is signed.
So if we want a contract all Pinnacle pilots are going to need to deceide they have had enough and let the flights be delayed, stop using your cell phone to fix there screw ups, don't ACARs or talk to Ops unless you are parked in the Deice pad, and fly at LRC when possible( to save fuel).
Any other suggestions?
So if we want a contract all Pinnacle pilots are going to need to deceide they have had enough and let the flights be delayed, stop using your cell phone to fix there screw ups, don't ACARs or talk to Ops unless you are parked in the Deice pad, and fly at LRC when possible( to save fuel).
Any other suggestions?
02-02-2008, 03:15 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ
Posts: 2,356
Originally Posted by Spooled
I heard the recent negotiations at Pinnacle did not go well. Basically management is stalling again...
Should I put my stuff in there?
Why doesn't the pilot group man up, and do what ASA did before they got their contract?
Should I put my stuff in there?
Why doesn't the pilot group man up, and do what ASA did before they got their contract?
Originally Posted by Spooled
No I don't. What has the pilot group been doing? I know the union has been doing everything they can. But what have the pilots been doing? Blocking out late?
Originally Posted by Spooled
You failed to answer my question. What are the pilots doing?
You know as well as I do, that the pilots are not the union. 90% of the pilots sit back and watch. They don't volunteer their time.
We do know 13% of the pilot group could care less.
You know as well as I do, that the pilots are not the union. 90% of the pilots sit back and watch. They don't volunteer their time.
We do know 13% of the pilot group could care less.
Originally Posted by Spooled
How was Pinnacle ever close to being released?
And what do I need to learn about the RLA and negotiations? Please explain. I'm willing to learn.
I talked nothing about illegal work actions. I asked what the pilot group was doing. IE - Writing everything up, not blocking out until getting cargo slip, run the APU, taxi slowly, not calling ops for numbers, if you need to burn off fuel do it at idle. Look at what Northwest and ASA accomplished.
And what do I need to learn about the RLA and negotiations? Please explain. I'm willing to learn.
I talked nothing about illegal work actions. I asked what the pilot group was doing. IE - Writing everything up, not blocking out until getting cargo slip, run the APU, taxi slowly, not calling ops for numbers, if you need to burn off fuel do it at idle. Look at what Northwest and ASA accomplished.
Originally Posted by Spooled
The union doesn't have to encourage them. They should encourage flying safely.
How are those illegal work actions? Since when is following the FOM/CFM illegal work actions?
"Writing everything up" - Flying around with inop equipment is a violation waiting to happen.
"not blocking out until getting cargo slip." FOM specifically states you need cargo slip before closing the door.
"run the APU" - Safety issue, generator redundancy, bleed misconfig.
"taxi slowly" - Safety issue, look at all the runoffs.
"not calling ops for numbers" - Sit in the penalty box until ground crew/load control does their job.
"if you need to burn off fuel do it at idle" - FOM states taxi with no more than 35% N1, to avoid FOD ingestion.
How are those illegal work actions? Since when is following the FOM/CFM illegal work actions?
"Writing everything up" - Flying around with inop equipment is a violation waiting to happen.
"not blocking out until getting cargo slip." FOM specifically states you need cargo slip before closing the door.
"run the APU" - Safety issue, generator redundancy, bleed misconfig.
"taxi slowly" - Safety issue, look at all the runoffs.
"not calling ops for numbers" - Sit in the penalty box until ground crew/load control does their job.
"if you need to burn off fuel do it at idle" - FOM states taxi with no more than 35% N1, to avoid FOD ingestion.
Originally Posted by Spooled
NWA- Did you notice how slow they taxied over the summer? I don't know the exact details. But they were getting paid only the time they flew (hence slow taxi speed). Now they are getting 'block' values, 50% premium pay over 80 hours, and other things.
ASA- They got management to negotiate. And they got a TA. I didn't say it was a good TA. But its a hell of a lot of progress, from the 5 year stand still.
ASA- They got management to negotiate. And they got a TA. I didn't say it was a good TA. But its a hell of a lot of progress, from the 5 year stand still.
Originally Posted by Spooled
Actually 87% of the 9E pilots voted. Of those 87%, 99% voted in favor of a strike. Who are the 13%??
Its not that hard to dial a phone number and vote. All I'm saying is 90% of pilots don't volunteer their time to the union.
Its not that hard to dial a phone number and vote. All I'm saying is 90% of pilots don't volunteer their time to the union.
Originally Posted by Spooled
So VERY TRUE!!!!! Nothing like sorting it out over ACARS. 
Originally Posted by Spooled
I'm not bad mouthing any pilot group. I think the 9E pilot group is great bunch of men and women. They will not settle for anything less than industry a leading contract.
My ultra industry knowledge(), comes from doing lots of reading and research. Not believing one single source, but gathering information from many sources, and making my own conclusion.
My ultra industry knowledge(
), comes from doing lots of reading and research. Not believing one single source, but gathering information from many sources, and making my own conclusion.
02-02-2008, 03:22 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 359
Originally Posted by Airsupport
"SHOULD I PUT MY STUFF IN THERE??"" you obviously already work here since you know so much about our procedures. your just on here trying to get something going but you are going about it the wrong way. after reading all these posts, plus the ones where you talk about msp vacancies, i have concluded that you do work here. so acting like you don't and then knowing all of our procedures. and not only do you know procedures you are quoting stuff from our fom.. you aren't to bright are you?
02-02-2008, 04:05 PM
#30
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B777ER
Posts: 13
Taxi Slow,do not use cell phone, do not call to get numbers corrected until you are in the penalty box (if then), do not call ops to get marshalled in, do not push back with a broken headset unless complying with FOM, do not have MEL added to release while you are taxing out,fly LRC whenever possible, do not fix nuisance messages by pulling circuit breakers on your own, do not accept short cuts on your route of flight, do not take the time to explain to the dispatcher why we need an alternate because they do not know how to read a TAF(that one happened last week)
Please note these suggestions do not require any FAR's or company policies broken.
Any other suggestions for our fellow Pinnacle pilots???
Please note these suggestions do not require any FAR's or company policies broken.
Any other suggestions for our fellow Pinnacle pilots???
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