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Old 02-24-2008 | 08:54 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Technically you cannot log landings, IMC, or approaches as PNF even if you are the PIC. The regs state that you must be the sole manipulator for those.
There is no sole manipulator requirement for IMC.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwartz
There is no sole manipulator requirement for IMC.
I believe there is. Read the FAR regarding logging instrument time. At any case, I never log IMC time if I am not the PF. You will have a hard time convincing an airline interviewer otherwise.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
How do you do it? We do that at my airline as well and here's what our instructor told us to do it. CAT II apps are done by FOs so they get to log the inst time and the number of apps. CA takes over and lands so he gets credit for landing. CAs do monitor so technically they can also log the apps I guess.
Thats how I do it, though I've never received any guidance from the company on what the "most correct, best practice" is. I think it's pretty straight forward for the FO. You flew the approach but you didn't land. Easy.

Not that it matters, but does the captain get to count the part of the approach from DH to the landing (all 7 seconds of it) as an approach? Does monitoring the approach count enough to log the approach? What about for currency?
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
I believe there is. Read the FAR regarding logging instrument time. At any case, I never log IMC time if I am not the PF. You will have a hard time convincing an airline interviewer otherwise.
You guys that are worried about this: do you log your PF and PM legs separately? I log 1 day/1 line in my log book with no distinction between PF and PM duties.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
Thats how I do it, though I've never received any guidance from the company on what the "most correct, best practice" is. I think it's pretty straight forward for the FO. You flew the approach but you didn't land. Easy.

Not that it matters, but does the captain get to count the part of the approach from DH to the landing (all 7 seconds of it) as an approach? Does monitoring the approach count enough to log the approach? What about for currency?
Don't have the answer to that. Next time I fly the CAT II approach, I will ask the CA I fly with how he intends to log it. For me it is simple. I fly the approach so I log the app and the IMC time. That's the way it was recommended to us in training. I just don't get the credit for landing.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
You guys that are worried about this: do you log your PF and PM legs separately? I log 1 day/1 line in my log book with no distinction between PF and PM duties.
No I do not distinguish between PF and PNF flying by separate entries. Here's how I do it: I make one entry for each day, so if I had a 4 leg day, and I flew 2 legs, I make one entry for all 4 legs, and add up the ME jet time, total AC time, XC time and the night time but I only log approaches I made and the IMC time only if I made the approach. I also annotate if I made a CAT II approach.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
No I do not distinguish between PF and PNF flying by separate entries. Here's how I do it: I make one entry for each day, so if I had a 4 leg day, and I flew 2 legs, I make one entry for all 4 legs, and add up the ME jet time, total AC time, XC time and the night time but I only log approaches I made and the IMC time only if I made the approach. I also annotate if I made a CAT II approach.
OK...then I guess my question is how would any one figure out that you logged some IMC time or an approach as PM vs PF?
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Zach
Why can you log night as pnf, but not imc? They are both conditions of flight.
Because there is nothing in the regs that says you must be sole manipulator in order to log night. The regs are quite specific about landings approaches, holds, and intercepting tracking in IMC.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwartz
There is no sole manipulator requirement for IMC.
Correct, the sole manipulator stuff is just for the 91 currency requirements and possibly aeronautical experience requirements for ratings. Like I said, you can log it all you want but don't get confused and start logging approaches and then using them for 91 currency.

IFR currency no longer requires a specific amount of IMC time, but it sure USED to, and you might confuse an old-school boy at an interview.
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Old 02-24-2008 | 09:45 AM
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I have no hard info, but I think that for a CAT II, the FO (only) would get the approach, and the CA would get the landing.
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