Mesa Career, Bad or indifferent
01-31-2006, 05:40 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by Linebacker35
Does anyone know anything about the aviation program at ASU. I was reading about it, it is run by Mesa. And that they hire FO's right out of school. Sounds like a preety good opritunity. Im trying to see if that would be worth it. I got football scholarship offers to smaller schools which also have aviation programs. If I where to go to ASU I would be a walk on for football. If anyone knows anything or has advice, i would apreciate that.
Also, ASU uses Warrior's for their primary training. They do the commercial in the bonanza and would borrow some of Farmington's barons when they had a big group of multi students to put through.
Still a good program. The CP (if he's still there from last year) was the asst. chief @ Farmington and runs a REALLY tight ship.
02-01-2006, 06:13 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 188
[QUOTE=Jared]I interviewed there, and on the way to the interview, I was enlightened by a fellow pilot going to interview. She directed me to mesalounge.com and my only regret was that I hadn't found it sooner. It is a great place to see and hear what the people who work there think about it.
QUOTE]
Mesalounge has been shut down Mesahub.com is the new place to go.
QUOTE]
Mesalounge has been shut down Mesahub.com is the new place to go.
02-01-2006, 07:22 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by fosters
I worked as a CFI at MAPD in Farmington. From my understanding, the ASU program is different where as they get their CFI in their program. At Farmington, the students would go to mesa with a wet commercial multi.
Also, ASU uses Warrior's for their primary training. They do the commercial in the bonanza and would borrow some of Farmington's barons when they had a big group of multi students to put through.
Still a good program. The CP (if he's still there from last year) was the asst. chief @ Farmington and runs a REALLY tight ship.
Also, ASU uses Warrior's for their primary training. They do the commercial in the bonanza and would borrow some of Farmington's barons when they had a big group of multi students to put through.
Still a good program. The CP (if he's still there from last year) was the asst. chief @ Farmington and runs a REALLY tight ship.
So would it be better to go to farmington? I was looking at their web site too and they looked really good. I think it was a two year program there? So I could just do that or get another degree at a differant school with my football scholarship than go to farmington after that.
02-01-2006, 07:41 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Linebacker35
So would it be better to go to farmington? I was looking at their web site too and they looked really good. I think it was a two year program there? So I could just do that or get another degree at a differant school with my football scholarship than go to farmington after that.
Big advantage to the PACE over the two year program: let's say you're 1-1/2 years into the full program, and Mesa loses it's contract with United...mass layoffs, NO job for you in sight. (this happened a few years ago) If you had done the PACE program, you would have a much better idea of the state of the industry and the state of Mesa on your expected graduation date. If you had aqcuired your ratings along the way in college, and something happens to Mesa, you can just go get a CFI and go that route. A lot can happen in 2 years...
02-01-2006, 07:47 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by rickair7777
A real 4 year degree is a great idea, highly recomended (you WILL need it for any major airline). While you're at, if you have time, get your private, instrument, and commercial multi-engine ratings at a local FBO. Than after school, you go to farmington and do their PACE program. This requires you to show up with a COMM/Multi, but only takes 4-5 months usually, and costs a lot less. The end result is the same...an interview at Mesa w/ a high probability of success.
Big advantage to the PACE over the two year program: let's say you're 1-1/2 years into the full program, and Mesa loses it's contract with United...mass layoffs, NO job for you in sight. (this happened a few years ago) If you had done the PACE program, you would have a much better idea of the state of the industry and the state of Mesa on your expected graduation date. If you had aqcuired your ratings along the way in college, and something happens to Mesa, you can just go get a CFI and go that route. A lot can happen in 2 years...
Big advantage to the PACE over the two year program: let's say you're 1-1/2 years into the full program, and Mesa loses it's contract with United...mass layoffs, NO job for you in sight. (this happened a few years ago) If you had done the PACE program, you would have a much better idea of the state of the industry and the state of Mesa on your expected graduation date. If you had aqcuired your ratings along the way in college, and something happens to Mesa, you can just go get a CFI and go that route. A lot can happen in 2 years...
Thats sounds like a really good plan. I think that might be the route i take. Thanks for the help
02-01-2006, 11:41 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
rickair777 typed in some great advice. I'd take it a step further and suggest that you always have diversity in your long-term plans. This industry as a whole is incredibly dynamic and nobody here can predict what's going to happen in the next year let alone two.
Just an example: UAL's superstrategizers figured all of their bankruptcy recovery numbers on $50 per barrel oil. Check out the current prices...
Just an example: UAL's superstrategizers figured all of their bankruptcy recovery numbers on $50 per barrel oil. Check out the current prices...
02-01-2006, 03:04 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Mesa Airlines Pilot Development (MAPD) is a set curriculum that starts you from zero and goes to Commercial/Multi-engine/Instrument ratings plus some jet (CRJ) groundschool and sim training. The program is run out of San Juan College in Farmington, NM, at ASU, and some other school in the midwest. San Juan is a 2 year program with an AA degree, I think ASU is a 4 year BS.
There are many other similar programs out there, some of which will actually get you an interview with a regional/commuter airline, but MAPD does have a very high success rate for getting people hired at Mesa, like 80%.
My usual recomendation is to get your instructor ratings and teach, then you will be competetive for more than one airline. If you chose MAPD, I will say that it is a good program that does what it claims (rare in the flight training industry!). HOWEVER, be aware that is costs a lot of $$$ and if you are in the wrong 20% or Mesa stops hiring, then you've blown that money. That training WILL NOT get you a job at any other airline. You would then need to go get your instructor ratings anyway. Basically it's a calculated risk...do you feel lucky?
Also, there is some sentiment in the industry that 300 hour airline pilots "didn't pay their dues" or "bought a job" and aren't real pilots. This could haunt you in the long run when you apply to a larger airline. I don't care about dues paying myself, but a FEW MAPD grads are just kids with no judgement or backbone who would have benefited from a few life experiences. Shouldn't apply in your case if you play college ball...
www.mesa-air.com has more info.
There are many other similar programs out there, some of which will actually get you an interview with a regional/commuter airline, but MAPD does have a very high success rate for getting people hired at Mesa, like 80%.
My usual recomendation is to get your instructor ratings and teach, then you will be competetive for more than one airline. If you chose MAPD, I will say that it is a good program that does what it claims (rare in the flight training industry!). HOWEVER, be aware that is costs a lot of $$$ and if you are in the wrong 20% or Mesa stops hiring, then you've blown that money. That training WILL NOT get you a job at any other airline. You would then need to go get your instructor ratings anyway. Basically it's a calculated risk...do you feel lucky?
Also, there is some sentiment in the industry that 300 hour airline pilots "didn't pay their dues" or "bought a job" and aren't real pilots. This could haunt you in the long run when you apply to a larger airline. I don't care about dues paying myself, but a FEW MAPD grads are just kids with no judgement or backbone who would have benefited from a few life experiences. Shouldn't apply in your case if you play college ball...
www.mesa-air.com has more info.
I just wanted to clear up a couple of things mentioned in your post.
First, the MAPD program does have a very high success rate. But it’s more in the range of 90% than 80%. The job is not guaranteed, but it is yours to lose. If something is going to trip a candidate up, it’s usually a bad attitude going into the interview, poor preparation, or something in their background that wasn't caught previously. Remember, Larry Risely and Mesa Airlines created the program. Mesa wants to hire the graduates.
Secondly, yes, the program does cost a lot of money. There are a lot of programs out there that cost just as much if not more, but they don't have the placement power that MAPD has. (Besides, if you don't get the job, you don't walk away empty handed. You still have your certificates and ratings. You just have to work on an alternate plan.) On the other hand there are a lot of outstanding flight training schools that cost less. That path usually leads to a flight instructor position. (I’m not down on flight instruction. I took that route, and I think it’s a great way to go.) The decision you have to make is how quickly do you want to get into the cockpit of an airline? Remember, seniority is everything when it comes to airlines.
As far as what happens when Mesa stops hiring, we've already seen what Mesa will do. After 9/11, Mesa continued to interview and hire the graduates. When training classes resumed, the pool of MAPD grads were brought on the property. Some folks sat around for over a year, but they knew they had a job in their back pocket. How well prepared they were to make it through ground school was up to them.
Finally, I wanted to address your comment about how being a 300 hour pilot may haunt you when you apply to other airlines. I wouldn't let that be a part of the decision. MAPD grads are flying at just about any airline you care to mention, both as first officers and as captains. Just like military pilots gripe about civilian pilots, and civilian pilots gripe about military pilots, there will be those who think that unless you paid your dues (however they define it), you're not a worthy pilot. A lot of students that do go through the program have parents who are pilots. Their folks have flown with an MAPD grad and gotten the gouge on the program. (Southwest, JetBlue, United, Northwest, etc.)
This post is not a flame, so hopefully you don't take it that way. I did want to set the record straight.
Hog.
02-01-2006, 04:01 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by Groundhog
Rick,
I just wanted to clear up a couple of things mentioned in your post.
First, the MAPD program does have a very high success rate. But it’s more in the range of 90% than 80%. The job is not guaranteed, but it is yours to lose. If something is going to trip a candidate up, it’s usually a bad attitude going into the interview, poor preparation, or something in their background that wasn't caught previously. Remember, Larry Risely and Mesa Airlines created the program. Mesa wants to hire the graduates.
Secondly, yes, the program does cost a lot of money. There are a lot of programs out there that cost just as much if not more, but they don't have the placement power that MAPD has. (Besides, if you don't get the job, you don't walk away empty handed. You still have your certificates and ratings. You just have to work on an alternate plan.) On the other hand there are a lot of outstanding flight training schools that cost less. That path usually leads to a flight instructor position. (I’m not down on flight instruction. I took that route, and I think it’s a great way to go.) The decision you have to make is how quickly do you want to get into the cockpit of an airline? Remember, seniority is everything when it comes to airlines.
As far as what happens when Mesa stops hiring, we've already seen what Mesa will do. After 9/11, Mesa continued to interview and hire the graduates. When training classes resumed, the pool of MAPD grads were brought on the property. Some folks sat around for over a year, but they knew they had a job in their back pocket. How well prepared they were to make it through ground school was up to them.
Finally, I wanted to address your comment about how being a 300 hour pilot may haunt you when you apply to other airlines. I wouldn't let that be a part of the decision. MAPD grads are flying at just about any airline you care to mention, both as first officers and as captains. Just like military pilots gripe about civilian pilots, and civilian pilots gripe about military pilots, there will be those who think that unless you paid your dues (however they define it), you're not a worthy pilot. A lot of students that do go through the program have parents who are pilots. Their folks have flown with an MAPD grad and gotten the gouge on the program. (Southwest, JetBlue, United, Northwest, etc.)
This post is not a flame, so hopefully you don't take it that way. I did want to set the record straight.
Hog.
I just wanted to clear up a couple of things mentioned in your post.
First, the MAPD program does have a very high success rate. But it’s more in the range of 90% than 80%. The job is not guaranteed, but it is yours to lose. If something is going to trip a candidate up, it’s usually a bad attitude going into the interview, poor preparation, or something in their background that wasn't caught previously. Remember, Larry Risely and Mesa Airlines created the program. Mesa wants to hire the graduates.
Secondly, yes, the program does cost a lot of money. There are a lot of programs out there that cost just as much if not more, but they don't have the placement power that MAPD has. (Besides, if you don't get the job, you don't walk away empty handed. You still have your certificates and ratings. You just have to work on an alternate plan.) On the other hand there are a lot of outstanding flight training schools that cost less. That path usually leads to a flight instructor position. (I’m not down on flight instruction. I took that route, and I think it’s a great way to go.) The decision you have to make is how quickly do you want to get into the cockpit of an airline? Remember, seniority is everything when it comes to airlines.
As far as what happens when Mesa stops hiring, we've already seen what Mesa will do. After 9/11, Mesa continued to interview and hire the graduates. When training classes resumed, the pool of MAPD grads were brought on the property. Some folks sat around for over a year, but they knew they had a job in their back pocket. How well prepared they were to make it through ground school was up to them.
Finally, I wanted to address your comment about how being a 300 hour pilot may haunt you when you apply to other airlines. I wouldn't let that be a part of the decision. MAPD grads are flying at just about any airline you care to mention, both as first officers and as captains. Just like military pilots gripe about civilian pilots, and civilian pilots gripe about military pilots, there will be those who think that unless you paid your dues (however they define it), you're not a worthy pilot. A lot of students that do go through the program have parents who are pilots. Their folks have flown with an MAPD grad and gotten the gouge on the program. (Southwest, JetBlue, United, Northwest, etc.)
This post is not a flame, so hopefully you don't take it that way. I did want to set the record straight.
Hog.
I think MAPD can definately be an advantage. It's something that I probably would have done if I were in that position, BUT if it doesn't work out for you, you're doing the CFI thing anyway. It's a calculated risk, I just want folks to be informed. I'm a calculated risk taker, others may not be so tolerant.
There's certainly lots of MAPD folks at majors, but my military buddies tell me that there are folks out there who don't like the whole concept. If one of those does your interview or sits on your hiring board it might be a problem if you don't have a CFI or military training. Just a public service announcement.
02-01-2006, 08:38 PM
#19
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Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Disillusioned
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by intheair10
Yeah, Mesa is hiring people with less than 500 hours total. Most likely these would be the people from MAPD that receive preferential hiring. As a former MAPD instructor and Mesa Airlines FO I can say that the above post is correct to a point.
02-02-2006, 08:04 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Embraer 145 CA
Posts: 26
I used to work at Mesa. I was originally hired with Liberty Express before the Alpa contract. All the san juanees I flew with were competent. They were better than most on systems knowledge. Overall though they didn't have the big picture when it came to staying ahead of the aircraft and situational awareness. If everything was going as planned they usually did great. If things went awry then their inexperience showed. Like everyone else though doing 4-8 legs a day, they caught on quickly. After about 3-6 months you couldn't tell the difference between a san juanee and anybody else hired off the street.
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12-31-2005 03:24 PM
