Shuttle America Over-Run: Interesting Reading
04-16-2008, 11:27 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL
At Republic, any sick call is an "occurence". Get too many per calendar year, and you can be terminated. Other "occurence" worthy items are late show, UNA's when on RSV and so forth. A "No-call/No-show" is worth 4.
A fatigue call is not supposed to be an occurence, but you WILL get a phone call from the Chief Pilot who will tell you that you MUST take the flight. They make every attempt to bully you to stay in the seat and complete the flight. The scheduler will also "conveniently" code the call as UNA and that stays as an occurence until you convince the CP or DO to change it to a fatigue call.
The IBT (union) has said they are powerless to do anything to stop the occurence policy. (this is after losing an arbitration on a similar issue)
Calling in sick at Republic results in the Crew Scheduler telling you that you are going to need a Dr.'s note. W*T*F?
A fatigue call is not supposed to be an occurence, but you WILL get a phone call from the Chief Pilot who will tell you that you MUST take the flight. They make every attempt to bully you to stay in the seat and complete the flight. The scheduler will also "conveniently" code the call as UNA and that stays as an occurence until you convince the CP or DO to change it to a fatigue call.
The IBT (union) has said they are powerless to do anything to stop the occurence policy. (this is after losing an arbitration on a similar issue)
Calling in sick at Republic results in the Crew Scheduler telling you that you are going to need a Dr.'s note. W*T*F?
wow sounds alot like mesa...didnt know it was that bad with occurences over there.
04-16-2008, 11:34 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Q400 survivor
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
There was a thread on this very question sometime ago. Basically the question was what do you (the FO) do when the CA continues the approach below minimums (interview question). Seems from this report that the NTSB has their opinion.
"6. When the captain called for a go-around because he could not see the runway environment, the first officer should have immediately executed a missed approach regardless of whether he had the runway in sight.
7. When the first officer did not immediately execute a missed approach, as instructed, the captain should have reasserted his go-around call or, if necessary, taken control of the airplane."
I remember one the strongest opinions on this forum was **against** taking the controls.
"17. Both flying and monitoring pilots should be able to call for a go-around because one pilot might detect a potentially unsafe condition that the other pilot does not detect. "
Also - in 121 operations - even if the FO in this case had the runway in sight and the captain calls for a GA because he does not have the runway environment in sight then a GA shall be executed? Is this SOP at many airlines? If any one calls for a missed approach then one is required regardless of the reason or who called it? I can understand this - it works the same way on the aircraft carrier; there are numerous LSOs who can called for the waveoff.
USMCFLYR
"6. When the captain called for a go-around because he could not see the runway environment, the first officer should have immediately executed a missed approach regardless of whether he had the runway in sight.
7. When the first officer did not immediately execute a missed approach, as instructed, the captain should have reasserted his go-around call or, if necessary, taken control of the airplane."
I remember one the strongest opinions on this forum was **against** taking the controls.
"17. Both flying and monitoring pilots should be able to call for a go-around because one pilot might detect a potentially unsafe condition that the other pilot does not detect. "
Also - in 121 operations - even if the FO in this case had the runway in sight and the captain calls for a GA because he does not have the runway environment in sight then a GA shall be executed? Is this SOP at many airlines? If any one calls for a missed approach then one is required regardless of the reason or who called it? I can understand this - it works the same way on the aircraft carrier; there are numerous LSOs who can called for the waveoff.
USMCFLYR
i always tell the captain that if they don't like what they're seeing when i fly an approach, to scream. that and it's my job to keep them legal, not the other way around...
04-16-2008, 11:34 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
Sounds like a world class operation... Kudos to you guys at RAH for keeping things safe and not bending more metal. Might be time to start "flying the contract" and let management know that if THEY aren't gonna be concerned with safety at least you boys and girls on the line will be.
04-16-2008, 11:47 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,552
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL
At Republic, any sick call is an "occurence". Get too many per calendar year, and you can be terminated. Other "occurence" worthy items are late show, UNA's when on RSV and so forth. A "No-call/No-show" is worth 4.
A fatigue call is not supposed to be an occurence, but you WILL get a phone call from the Chief Pilot who will tell you that you MUST take the flight. They make every attempt to bully you to stay in the seat and complete the flight. The scheduler will also "conveniently" code the call as UNA and that stays as an occurence until you convince the CP or DO to change it to a fatigue call.
The IBT (union) has said they are powerless to do anything to stop the occurence policy. (this is after losing an arbitration on a similar issue)
Calling in sick at Republic results in the Crew Scheduler telling you that you are going to need a Dr.'s note. W*T*F?
A fatigue call is not supposed to be an occurence, but you WILL get a phone call from the Chief Pilot who will tell you that you MUST take the flight. They make every attempt to bully you to stay in the seat and complete the flight. The scheduler will also "conveniently" code the call as UNA and that stays as an occurence until you convince the CP or DO to change it to a fatigue call.
The IBT (union) has said they are powerless to do anything to stop the occurence policy. (this is after losing an arbitration on a similar issue)
Calling in sick at Republic results in the Crew Scheduler telling you that you are going to need a Dr.'s note. W*T*F?
All I can say is WOW. I have never worked for Mesa... but it is even that bad over there???
That sounds to me like that would be a sticking point against going to fly for Republic. I almost recommended to a friend of mine to fly for Republic because they were one of the top tier regionals. This really makes me think twice. What good is a little extra pay if the operation is not safe. If you get harassed for calling in fatigued, that is NOT safe!!
Glad the NTSB faulted the company for their fatigued call scare tactics.
04-16-2008, 11:58 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: E170 FO
Posts: 686
I haven't experienced any trouble with calling in sick, but I do know the above things have happened at times. I don't think they are as common as the poster would imply though. Each certificate has its own nuances. The attendance policy is more for flight attendants and I don't know of any pilots who have been fired solely for too many sick calls. Now if you UNA or no-call/no-show after several sick calls, they'll stick it to you.
04-16-2008, 01:29 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A318 short bus
Posts: 47
called in Fatigued last month. Scheduling was mad, but the CP never called. marked fatigued on crew-track and never had to bother with it again. Since this incident I guess the company has backed off their threatening approach. 4 occurrences you do get a nastygram in your file.
04-16-2008, 02:05 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
You might need to call the FAA, NOT your P.O.I.
Hey Mathew,
It sounds like an anonymous call regarding "overall safety" to the FAA safety hotline might be in order (Of course, not after your occurrence but before... so the Company doesn't know who made the call). Then, D.C. calls your P.O.I., and says W.T.F.
Now, the P.O.I. has mud on his/her face with D.C. and is PIS3ED. This bypasses the whole D.O. buys the P.O.I his weekly lunch, and then the P.O.I. buys off on the fact that this isn't company proceedure and the pilot is just full of @#$%. The D.O. gets surprised by the ****ed off P.O.I. and changes promoting safety can happen, because now Washington D.C. is breathing down both their backs making deal-making difficult. Yes, the FAA is a dual-edged sword...
Also, if you are terminated as a transportation worker for "blowing the whistle" there are legal protections available. Am I just paranoid or is just everyone against me? Maybe both..lol.
Finally, if all else fails, I would use the IBT's media contacts to go public. If Local 747's not doing it for you, call IBT's D.C. office and tell them get 747 going on this issue. We had to do it with Local 747 in the late 90's and they were PIS3ED, too. But it worked, even if it embarrassed the higher powers there.
Good Luck...
B727DRVR
It sounds like an anonymous call regarding "overall safety" to the FAA safety hotline might be in order (Of course, not after your occurrence but before... so the Company doesn't know who made the call). Then, D.C. calls your P.O.I., and says W.T.F.
Now, the P.O.I. has mud on his/her face with D.C. and is PIS3ED. This bypasses the whole D.O. buys the P.O.I his weekly lunch, and then the P.O.I. buys off on the fact that this isn't company proceedure and the pilot is just full of @#$%. The D.O. gets surprised by the ****ed off P.O.I. and changes promoting safety can happen, because now Washington D.C. is breathing down both their backs making deal-making difficult. Yes, the FAA is a dual-edged sword...
Also, if you are terminated as a transportation worker for "blowing the whistle" there are legal protections available. Am I just paranoid or is just everyone against me? Maybe both..lol.
Finally, if all else fails, I would use the IBT's media contacts to go public. If Local 747's not doing it for you, call IBT's D.C. office and tell them get 747 going on this issue. We had to do it with Local 747 in the late 90's and they were PIS3ED, too. But it worked, even if it embarrassed the higher powers there.
Good Luck...
B727DRVR
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