Ok. Since I'm on a long productivity sit (as usual, just a few minutes short of getting a hotel room for the day) I will elaborate on my comments for those of you who don't understand the intent of my post or who can't quite face the facts.

The thread is entitled "Reasons Not To Come To Pinnacle". It is not entitled Never Come To Pinnacle, Pinnacle is the Worst Place on Earth, I Hate Aviation or anything else. It is entitled "Reasons Not To Come To Pinnacle" and is exactly that: A list of reasons that in my mind make Pinnacle a bad choice for most people right now.

Whether people ultimately decide to come to Pinnacle is entirely their choice. I do not bear any ill will towards anybody who decides to come here. I simply want people to make an educated decision.

You would have to be a complete moron not to know that the hiring market has changed. I am aware that there are far less job opportunities available at the moment. However, this does not change the basic facts about working at Pinnacle.

Allow me to elaborate:

- A 9 year old contract, amendable for over three years: FACT

- Lowest FO rates in the industry: FACT, look at any other 50 seat jet rates for years 1,2 & 3, even Mesa is higher.

- Mandatory overtime ("junior man"): FACT, you will have to justify your junior assignment refusal to your base manager at a later date and hope that the junior man refusal will be excused. Not all refusals will be excused, especially if you have multiple refusals. Furthermore, scheduling has been junior manning via crewtrac. This means that you have to self-notify (accept) the junior assignment before you can check-in for your trip or have to call scheduling. That makes it kind of hard to use the "I've been drinking" or "I'm in the middle of a swamp hundreds of miles from civilization" excuse. Scheduling has also been leaving voicemails telling people that they are junior manned and that they must call back although there is no contractual obligation to do so.

- Mandatory extensions (one refusal per month): FACT, you can only refuse one extension per month. Once the monthly extension refusal has been used, you are required to accept up to 2 extensions per month not to exceed 9 extensions in a 12 month period. Reserves can and will be extended into their day off. You are not entitled to redeem your lost day off ("comp day") in the next bid period unless the extension takes you below 10 days off. In many cases, the "comp day" which you are contractually entitled to is denied due to "operational necessity". Many reserve captains end up with less than 10 days off for consecutive months. If the above two points don't qualify as mandatory overtime, then I'm not quite sure what does.

- Vindictive management, or lack there-of: FACT, pilots are subject to disciplinary procedures "up to and including termination" for relatively minor infractions or perceived infractions. I can not talk about specific cases due to confidentiality issues however suffice it to say that I have seen good pilots suspended/terminated for minor issues that at another airline might not even result in a meeting with management. The sick policy encourages pilots to fly sick. You are only permitted 3 sick calls per rolling 12 month period not to exceed 6 days TOTAL - not each occurrence. Anything exceeding these guidelines will result in warnings and eventually disciplinary action.

- Inept dispatching/scheduling (you will be hung out to dry if in violation): FACT, the company self discloses to the FAA. We have a few good dispatchers however the majority are in my opinion inexperienced and over saturated with too many flights. Most schedulers do not even know what "Whitlow" means... They will try to coerce you into accepting an illegal assignment (which hopefully they wrongfully believe to be legal). Should you accept their reassurance and accept said assignment, if it is later deemed to be illegal, the company will self disclose to the FAA and you will be hung out to dry.

- Total hypocrisy in regards to the "guiding principles": FACT, not only for the reasons stated above but also a lack of effective internal COMMUNICATION, RESPECT, and ETHICS and VALUES. As Higney stated on another thread, a recent change to the W&B policy was implemented without any COMMUNICATION to the pilot group.

- Lack of work rules: FACT, we have amongst the worst work rules or lack there-of in the industry. Just to name a few: 50% deadhead pay, 50% cancelation pay, no minimum daily pay regardless of total duty time other than the 75 hours/month guarantee etc...

- Reserve pilots would be treated with more dignity on a bad day in Burma: OK, thats my opinion

- Many of us would cut off our nose to hurt our face: Well let me put it this way. I'm the kind of person that normally bends over backwards to help out. I have to make a decided effort not to do anything more than is professionally required of me by the contract until we get a new contract and are treated and compensated with some basic dignity. I will however always help a passenger and will not take it out on them (other than a legal strike of course).

- A complete lack of morale caused by the above. FACT, 99.39% strike authorization vote which I believe is the highest strike authorization vote in ALPA history. This company has many talented and good people however management is wasting this valuable resource that could really help the company grow and succeed by delaying a fair contract. We are professionals and will do our jobs professionally but to the letter of the contract until we get a fair contract that will eventually result in an improvement of morale.


So you see, I'm not trying to make anybody's mind up for them as to if they should apply to Pinnacle or not. I am simply sharing with you some facts and some opinion so that you can make the choice that is right for you.

As for the people who say: "why don't you just leave?" Well, it's not that simple. Although I'm by no means super senior, I have accumulated seniority here. To make a lateral move does not make sense to me. Also, when I came to Pinnacle, most people did not foresee a 3 year wait for a new contract and to be honest, I did not know what I know now. That's why I am sharing this information - so that people can make an educated decision...

 

wolf my fellow pinnacle brother you have to quit letting this place get to you.

1. i agree, 9 year old contract sucks, cant change it right now.

2. i agree fo rates suck, and it bugs me that new hires are making more on the 900 than i do on 3rd year fo pay on the 200. nothing i can do to change that right now though.

3. if you are answering your phone when they call to junior man then you deserve the trip they give you. i have stated before that my phone doesn't even ring when they call me. i have no idea when they call unless they leave a message. and when they do leave a message i just listen, smile and press 7.

4. yeah, extensions suck. old contract, nothing i can do about that right now.

5. vindictive management, nothing i can do about that right now.

6. inept dispatch/scheduling. they are pawns just like us at a poorly run airline. i got to meet several schedulers and dispatchers several months ago during recurent. poor guys have it just as bad as we do. nothing i can do about that right now.

7. ignoring the guiding principles? nothing i can do about that right now.

8. lack or work rules, goes back to old contract, nothing i can do about that right now.

9. burma is now myanmar, with over 100,000 people reported killed by the recent typhoon. i will take my chances with pinnacle.

10. not sure why i would want to hurt my own face by cutting off my own nose.

11. low morale. probably. but its due to all the above and like i said there is nothing i can do about that right now.


note that in almost all my responses i said there is nothing i can do about it right now. i don't let this place turn my gears. like silver said (i think) i don't let this place get to me. my morale is REALLY HIGH, but it has nothing to do with the company. it has to do with my family, playing with my kids, and spending lots of time with them. i come in, do my 3 day trip and walk out. i bring none of that trash home with me, and i can leave it all at the democrat lot. are people going to have the same experience as me? probably not if they come here now. they will more than likely be on reserve for a while and then when they are finally off will still only hold 10 days off. i have been here long enough to get the schedules i want and work as little as possible. infact last month i requested to drop a trip and it took me below 70 hours so i had to get the base managers approval. i just told her i wanted the time off and i found a guy that wanted to do the trip. so voila i had 21 days off in april. i just make sure i work enough to keep my insurance and thats it. i have the time to upgrade so i don't need any more of that. i only make 30 bucks an hour so its not worth it to me to bust my but for a small increase in the pay check.

now back to why i said "there is nothing i can do about it right now". i was part of the 99% that voted for the strike. when the time comes i will be able to say "now there is something i can do about it". it will be realy easy to go on strike for me. i am virtually there anyway with my own personal working as little as i can movement. till then i am at the mercy and whimes of the company. since it is something i have no control over i dont worry about it. i just take control of the things i can and thats it.

 

Airsupport,

I respect your opinion and like your posts. However, life is a little different for you as a very senior FO than for a relatively junior captain or for that matter, a junior FO.

I knew what I was getting into when I upgraded. It's not so much that the place gets to me although I am obviously not as good at compartmentalizing things as you are. I think it's important that people know what they are getting into...

I am not diminishing the tragedy of what happened in Burma. I was being facetious. As to why I use the term Burma as opposed to Myanmar, since 1989 the military authorities in Burma have promoted the name Myanmar; this decision was not approved by any sitting legislature in Burma, and the US Government did not adopt the name. I'm not a fan of the military junta in Burma and I don't see why we should recognize the name.

 

oh man, i guess i could have written that one better. i wasn't trying in anyway to say you were diminishing the tragedy there. far from it. i knew you were being facetious, and i was too, hence the i will take my chances with pinnacle comment. yeah i didn't mean to imply you were saying any thing else, dont worry.

and you are right man. i know the life of a junior captain, and a junior fo sucks. that is why i will wait to upgrade till i can hold a line. i am in no hurry to get on reserve again just so they can make my life miserable. like a guy said in our recent climb and maintain the get 1000 and get out isn't to true anymore. my bet (gamble) is that even if i were to upgrade right now and get my 1000hrs the airlines will still be going through a lot of trouble and change. i am betting (hoping) that if i wait just a bit more then by the time i have my pic that the industry will be back in an upturn. but who knows, i may miss the ship also if they stop upgrades here, that is just a risk i guess i am willing to take.

 

I still want my 1000TJPIC as soon as possible. Think about how many pilots hit the street in how much time? PIC is important- whether its more furloughs in the future or a sharp decline in the oil bubble with companies hiring. After the 1000TJPIC its all about QOL but until then the TJPIC is only to "check the box" for when the time comes to get out. Its not just a 1000 that is magical, its the point that you get over the "new captain" viewpoint on a resume. Over 1000 and you can say you have been a CA for a while. That is only my opinion. It also matters where you want to go and what connections you have to get there.

 

Wolf: "This took me only a few seconds to type. " posted 10:39, last edited 11:28

let's see, carry the one, divide by 7....

Actually, it took 2940 seconds, but who's counting...

This is a good post that helps newbies make decisions.

 

Not sure where you came up with "most". Maybe the top 50% get 15 days off. I would guess less than 10 people company wide got 20 days off - just a guess - I'm not going to bother looking.

If you've been here 6+ years you might be 15+ days off as a Captain. If thats the case, I truly feel sorry for you. More than likely you're a 'lifer'.

You are obviously clueless if you think the "majority" of people are happy here. It's the exact opposite. Morale is VERY low.

Maybe you're unintelligent and don't realize that you're continually getting screwed by this crappy contract we operate under.

Seems you're living in some fantasy world or a member of noncaring blvd.

 

Spooled- don't take this personal but for someone who hates this company SOO bad why are you here? Myself and many others have plenty of complaints but we all have a choice to leave. I have not seen one even pleasant thing from you about this job in general. Most on here mention the bad AND the good, you just seem to find no good points.

 

So when do you guys expect to have your new contract? Last I heard from one of your guys in the hotel van, you were asking for XJT +3%? Did you guys have the picketing in MEM last week? If not, who was it and how did it go.

Thanks.

 

now spooled come on. you say stuff like this and it makes me wonder if you really work here. the VERY LAST CAPTAIN in memphis to get a line has a line of 90+ hours and 14 days off. how can you complain about that? seriously. the guy almost has half the month off AND is flying productive trips that will result in a nice pay check. and he is at the bottom of the barrel for mem captains.

i wouldn't say morale is very low. the only time morale gets really bad is when you go into ops and the same people are crying and moaning about the same stuff week, after week, after week. Things wont change till we get a contract so why drag yourself down and the people around you. like i said earlier everyone at pinnacle wanst a contract and we want it now. but i can tell you since i have to fly every so often it is sure a relief when i get into the plane to talk about something other than how much the company sucks. we know. and i know misery loves company but come on "ma'm"