Eagle in Miami
06-13-2008 | 09:31 AM
#101
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
I'm not sure if I agree with your apples and coal statement. It is essentially a very similar situation. Granted not completely the same, but there are enough similarities to make the comparison valid.
The fact remains, once the arbitrator rules this was a violation of the AE pilot contract, (which they have no choice but to do based upon the prior rulings), then what does that make the TSA pilots? Are you saying your MEC is not capable of dealing with more than one issue at a time? That is a cop out. Your MEC should have issued a blanket statement following the announcement of the Miami flying that this was in violation of an ALPA contract, and that members should not fly the routes. In other words, they should have struck the Miami flying. We're prohibited from striking due to a very bad contract agreement... we gave them that, along with a few other things to get a single pilot list from the four airlines that were operating as American Eagle. Now, here we are years later, and they are trying to give away flying to an outside carrier... essentially recreating a multiple pilot group situation all over again.
ALPA needs to start running like a national union. Allowing each individual MEC (union local) to lower the bar is not acceptable. There needs to be a "basic" pilot contract created, and each MEC should be prohibited from accepting anything less than the ALPA basic contract. Each MEC would remain free to negotiate special perks with their own managements, and tailored to their own airline. ALPA national needs to take a stronger leadership position, and put some backing and support behind the words "we're taking it back."
If we need to have a systemwide meeting of all the MEC's, or create a committee comprised of members from each pilot group, to construct the "basic" ALPA pilot contract, then that is what we should start doing, and the time is now. Each member of the committee would bring their contract to the meetings, and as a group, select the best sections from the various contracts, to create the new "basic" ALPA pilot contract.
The "basic" ALPA pilot contract should be constructed to cover everything from Beech 1900's to A380's. A new idea, which I have not seen at ALPA, but have seen at other pilot union contract or side letters, is to include a fine system for when management violates the contract. Additionally, a section prohibiting members from knowingly violating another local's contract should be included, with a stipulation that if pilots refuse to fly, after being notified by an MEC of the violation the companies may not take punative actions against them...
just some thoughts and rants....
other ideas anybody?
The fact remains, once the arbitrator rules this was a violation of the AE pilot contract, (which they have no choice but to do based upon the prior rulings), then what does that make the TSA pilots? Are you saying your MEC is not capable of dealing with more than one issue at a time? That is a cop out. Your MEC should have issued a blanket statement following the announcement of the Miami flying that this was in violation of an ALPA contract, and that members should not fly the routes. In other words, they should have struck the Miami flying. We're prohibited from striking due to a very bad contract agreement... we gave them that, along with a few other things to get a single pilot list from the four airlines that were operating as American Eagle. Now, here we are years later, and they are trying to give away flying to an outside carrier... essentially recreating a multiple pilot group situation all over again.
ALPA needs to start running like a national union. Allowing each individual MEC (union local) to lower the bar is not acceptable. There needs to be a "basic" pilot contract created, and each MEC should be prohibited from accepting anything less than the ALPA basic contract. Each MEC would remain free to negotiate special perks with their own managements, and tailored to their own airline. ALPA national needs to take a stronger leadership position, and put some backing and support behind the words "we're taking it back."
If we need to have a systemwide meeting of all the MEC's, or create a committee comprised of members from each pilot group, to construct the "basic" ALPA pilot contract, then that is what we should start doing, and the time is now. Each member of the committee would bring their contract to the meetings, and as a group, select the best sections from the various contracts, to create the new "basic" ALPA pilot contract.
The "basic" ALPA pilot contract should be constructed to cover everything from Beech 1900's to A380's. A new idea, which I have not seen at ALPA, but have seen at other pilot union contract or side letters, is to include a fine system for when management violates the contract. Additionally, a section prohibiting members from knowingly violating another local's contract should be included, with a stipulation that if pilots refuse to fly, after being notified by an MEC of the violation the companies may not take punative actions against them...
just some thoughts and rants....
other ideas anybody?
06-13-2008 | 09:36 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
2- We have no choice but to fly it for now. In all honesty, I hope you get your Miami flying all to yourselves.....and most of the pilots here would agree. We don't have the luxury of just not showing up for that part of our trip.......I mean, we could, and then get fired. So if that's what you're looking for then we can do that and then try to come work with you at Eagle if that sounds cool?
Last edited by Mason32; 06-13-2008 at 09:38 AM. Reason: typos
06-13-2008 | 11:11 AM
#103
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,367
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From: SIC
To think that a couple of regional MEC's are going to negotiate something to better the "overall" pilot group is lofty at best....The simple fact that US Air / AW union can't find solid footing should give us a glimpse of what ALPA is really good doing.
As far as a national pilot contract under ALPA, that wouldn't be a bad idea, and you might be on to something Mason....unfortunately, i don't know how far up the ALPA chain-of-command something like that would make it....But we'd never know until we try, might wanna talk to the local MEC's to get a ball moving on something like that.
As far as a national pilot contract under ALPA, that wouldn't be a bad idea, and you might be on to something Mason....unfortunately, i don't know how far up the ALPA chain-of-command something like that would make it....But we'd never know until we try, might wanna talk to the local MEC's to get a ball moving on something like that.
06-13-2008 | 11:37 AM
#104
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
To think that a couple of regional MEC's are going to negotiate something to better the "overall" pilot group is lofty at best....The simple fact that US Air / AW union can't find solid footing should give us a glimpse of what ALPA is really good doing.
As far as a national pilot contract under ALPA, that wouldn't be a bad idea, and you might be on to something Mason....unfortunately, i don't know how far up the ALPA chain-of-command something like that would make it....But we'd never know until we try, might wanna talk to the local MEC's to get a ball moving on something like that.
As far as a national pilot contract under ALPA, that wouldn't be a bad idea, and you might be on to something Mason....unfortunately, i don't know how far up the ALPA chain-of-command something like that would make it....But we'd never know until we try, might wanna talk to the local MEC's to get a ball moving on something like that.
I'm sick of hearing things like... "we're taking it back," and "one union, one voice." I want to see some action to support those words.
Prater should be interjecting in this situation. We have one ALPA pilot group, walking over another ALPA pilot group... and both MEC's are doing nothing about it. Are we one union, or not? ALPA national needs to get involved now if the MEC's aren't going to work together.
Recall elections are always a possibility.
06-13-2008 | 11:53 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
From: Satan's Camaro
I'm not sure if I agree with your apples and coal statement. It is essentially a very similar situation. Granted not completely the same, but there are enough similarities to make the comparison valid.
The fact remains, once the arbitrator rules this was a violation of the AE pilot contract, (which they have no choice but to do based upon the prior rulings), then what does that make the TSA pilots? Are you saying your MEC is not capable of dealing with more than one issue at a time? That is a cop out. Your MEC should have issued a blanket statement following the announcement of the Miami flying that this was in violation of an ALPA contract, and that members should not fly the routes. In other words, they should have struck the Miami flying. We're prohibited from striking due to a very bad contract agreement... we gave them that, along with a few other things to get a single pilot list from the four airlines that were operating as American Eagle. Now, here we are years later, and they are trying to give away flying to an outside carrier... essentially recreating a multiple pilot group situation all over again.
ALPA needs to start running like a national union. Allowing each individual MEC (union local) to lower the bar is not acceptable. There needs to be a "basic" pilot contract created, and each MEC should be prohibited from accepting anything less than the ALPA basic contract. Each MEC would remain free to negotiate special perks with their own managements, and tailored to their own airline. ALPA national needs to take a stronger leadership position, and put some backing and support behind the words "we're taking it back."
...
Really, your MEC is powerless to call for a job action? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your contract does not have the same no strike, job action, crap that ours does.... does it?
The fact remains, once the arbitrator rules this was a violation of the AE pilot contract, (which they have no choice but to do based upon the prior rulings), then what does that make the TSA pilots? Are you saying your MEC is not capable of dealing with more than one issue at a time? That is a cop out. Your MEC should have issued a blanket statement following the announcement of the Miami flying that this was in violation of an ALPA contract, and that members should not fly the routes. In other words, they should have struck the Miami flying. We're prohibited from striking due to a very bad contract agreement... we gave them that, along with a few other things to get a single pilot list from the four airlines that were operating as American Eagle. Now, here we are years later, and they are trying to give away flying to an outside carrier... essentially recreating a multiple pilot group situation all over again.
ALPA needs to start running like a national union. Allowing each individual MEC (union local) to lower the bar is not acceptable. There needs to be a "basic" pilot contract created, and each MEC should be prohibited from accepting anything less than the ALPA basic contract. Each MEC would remain free to negotiate special perks with their own managements, and tailored to their own airline. ALPA national needs to take a stronger leadership position, and put some backing and support behind the words "we're taking it back."
...
Really, your MEC is powerless to call for a job action? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your contract does not have the same no strike, job action, crap that ours does.... does it?
Just some food for thought.
06-13-2008 | 12:11 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
Are you familiar at all with the RLA? You can't just strike when you feel like it... And I'm not sure if you understand that Job Actions are illegal as well. Basically, the two things that you told TSA pilots to do are illegal, and could result in termination, fines, or jail time.
Just some food for thought.
Just some food for thought.
I think my last statement was to correct me if I'm wrong.
Unlike others, I am not above saying I was mistaken.
06-13-2008 | 10:41 PM
#107
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 184
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From: A320 CA
"Possibility" of furloughs has been thrown around way before you saw the "TSA Furloughing" thread on APC. Get the facts before you start making assumptions.
06-14-2008 | 05:06 AM
#108
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
The "possibility" of furloughs has existed since the day you took the job.
Look at the history of this industry. They hire like gangbusters right up until the day they send out furlough notices.
Your honestly going to try hiding behind a "we might furlough someday" claim? The MIA transfer was fact well before a factual furlough notice was sent.
Get YOUR facts straight.
06-14-2008 | 05:08 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
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From: Reclined
The "possibility" of furloughs has existed since the day you took the job.
Look at the history of this industry. They hire like gangbusters right up until the day they send out furlough notices.
Your honestly going to try hiding behind a "we might furlough someday" claim? The MIA transfer was fact well before a factual furlough notice was sent.
Get YOUR facts straight.
PS - Try reading the Arbitrators ruling before you talk yourself further into a hole. The transfer of flying to TSA violates our scope. The continued operation of AMR aircraft by pilots not on our list violates scope... we are no longer at maximum growth potential and unable to staff those planes. That was the reason given by AMR for keeping TSA. That situation no longer exists. Go Read the Arbitrators ruling.
06-14-2008 | 05:11 AM
#110
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 141
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From: CR7 FO
TSA striking over this is a bit extreme but a letter to AMR saying that "We feel this is wrong, we are doing it in protest..." yada yada yada would have been nice. Don't expect ANY favors from Eagle or our MEC. You knew this violated our contract and were all happy as clams when this announcement came out.
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