turboprop pic or jet pic?
03-08-2006, 04:26 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by WEACLRS
Rick - can you take a stab at whether you think they had PIC experience (capt's) or were FO's that wanted to move to a jet?
We do get a number of FO's at Colgan that stay for a few months and then get hired at an RJ carrier. The ones that are under 22 I can't blame - they might as well go and sit in a jet until they can upgrade - second year pay is better. But I try to talk the older ones out of it because turbine PIC time is so important and our upgrades have been fairly quick. I hope I'm not doing them a disservice.
That said we've also had a few "marginal" guys (for lack of a better term) that I think get nervous with the short upgrade times here and they jump ship...only to run square into their piloting weakness at the next stop. I can think of two that went ExpressJet. One I know didn't make it (he wanted me to recommend him back into Colgan) and I sure hope the other has found another career.
We do get a number of FO's at Colgan that stay for a few months and then get hired at an RJ carrier. The ones that are under 22 I can't blame - they might as well go and sit in a jet until they can upgrade - second year pay is better. But I try to talk the older ones out of it because turbine PIC time is so important and our upgrades have been fairly quick. I hope I'm not doing them a disservice.
That said we've also had a few "marginal" guys (for lack of a better term) that I think get nervous with the short upgrade times here and they jump ship...only to run square into their piloting weakness at the next stop. I can think of two that went ExpressJet. One I know didn't make it (he wanted me to recommend him back into Colgan) and I sure hope the other has found another career.
03-08-2006, 04:40 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by rickair7777
It seems to be always prop captains going to jet CA or FO, probably because it's hard to stay in turboprops for long without upgrading. I don't think it could be a pilot quality thing, initial aircaft assignments are random.
Do you think it's related to the automation (FMS, glass, etc) or ?? I spend my days slash alpha. The SAAB has a great autopilot and good EADI and EFIS, but otherwise it's dual nav/coms, DME's, and an ADF. I'm curious if you (or anyone else) thinks the lack of FMS style PIC time is of any real concern or, if one is competent generally, those skills can be readily picked up in training.
We have had a few of captain upgrades fail recently for "soft skills" - lack of command authority. Call it seasoning or whatever, but guys aren't ready when the call comes. Our FAA ACPM has indicated this is a problem the FAA is concerned about at a number of regional airlines. Are you guys seeing any of this too? I'm inclined to chalk it up to the quick upgrade...
Last edited by WEACLRS; 03-08-2006 at 04:42 PM.
03-08-2006, 04:52 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by WEACLRS
Are you referring to internal company upgrades and transistions, or to outside new hires?
Do you think it's related to the automation (FMS, glass, etc) or ?? I spend my days slash alpha. The SAAB has a great autopilot and good EADI and EFIS, but otherwise it's dual nav/coms, DME's, and an ADF. I'm curious if you (or anyone else) thinks the lack of FMS style PIC time is of any real concern or, if one is competent generally, those skills can be readily picked up in training.
We have had a few of captain upgrades fail recently for "soft skills" - lack of command authority. Call it seasoning or whatever, but guys aren't ready when the call comes. Our FAA ACPM has indicated this is a problem the FAA is concerned about at a number of regional airlines. Are you guys seeing any of this too? I'm inclined to chalk it up to the quick upgrade...
Do you think it's related to the automation (FMS, glass, etc) or ?? I spend my days slash alpha. The SAAB has a great autopilot and good EADI and EFIS, but otherwise it's dual nav/coms, DME's, and an ADF. I'm curious if you (or anyone else) thinks the lack of FMS style PIC time is of any real concern or, if one is competent generally, those skills can be readily picked up in training.
We have had a few of captain upgrades fail recently for "soft skills" - lack of command authority. Call it seasoning or whatever, but guys aren't ready when the call comes. Our FAA ACPM has indicated this is a problem the FAA is concerned about at a number of regional airlines. Are you guys seeing any of this too? I'm inclined to chalk it up to the quick upgrade...
03-08-2006, 05:01 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 737/FO
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by rickair7777
...Maybe it's just difficult to break out of hand flying/steam guage mind-set into glass/FMS. I guess the point I'm making is if you're on turbo-props now, don't expect a slam-dunk transition into the RJ.
Last edited by WEACLRS; 03-08-2006 at 05:04 PM.
03-08-2006, 09:09 PM
#16
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Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
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Originally Posted by beeker
I'm sure some T-prop guys had trouble with the transition but I bet the same amount of jet guys would have trouble with the turbo prop.
03-09-2006, 05:17 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Z F/O
Posts: 213
I went from a Saab to a an A300 (with a stint on the DC8 panel in between) and had no problem with the training. Not sure where the problem lies.
A for the original question, get the PIC time first!!!!!! And don't ever get comfortable till your at your TRUE goal airline.
A for the original question, get the PIC time first!!!!!! And don't ever get comfortable till your at your TRUE goal airline.
03-10-2006, 04:06 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by fosters
AWAC is not the "career" place is used to be. Switching to the US Air flying has killed productivity and made the schedules horrible for the commuters, with an average of 13 days off a month compared to what used to be 17-18 days off a month.
Get the PIC time, it'll help you later in life. A career at a regional isn't viable, unless you like being on pins and needles and don't mind moving every year.
Get the PIC time, it'll help you later in life. A career at a regional isn't viable, unless you like being on pins and needles and don't mind moving every year.
thanks to everyone for the answers.
fosters, aren't the schedules better than you guys are not understaffed anymore( they stopped hiring , so i suppose you guys are staffed properly now.)
can you eleaborate a little about AWAc please?
03-10-2006, 02:54 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by saviboy
thanks to everyone for the answers.
fosters, aren't the schedules better than you guys are not understaffed anymore( they stopped hiring , so i suppose you guys are staffed properly now.)
can you eleaborate a little about AWAc please?
fosters, aren't the schedules better than you guys are not understaffed anymore( they stopped hiring , so i suppose you guys are staffed properly now.)
can you eleaborate a little about AWAc please?
What do you want to know about AWAC? It's a job, that's all it is. I suppose it could be worse, but upgrades will come to a halt here shortly because the 146 guys are transitioning over. I, personally, would go to a place that has a traditionally quick upgrade time if you can stomach it. Turbine SIC won't get you anywhere.
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