Colgan Changes Rules again to SUIT THEM
 

And yet, Guys support outfits like that.But hey, quick PIC right?

Vote YES for a union. This Pinnacle Corp BS will stop. I know I am not in the best spot to say my bias views but these "issues" are clearly dealt with by having a legally binding contract. Buddy and the gang are not there to be your "friends" and are far from the family setup the colgan people once had. Wish you luck. PIC time and the Pay is always a hard one to take on the cheek.

sorry to hear it. Give it a page or two and then someone will defend Colgan without any real reasons. Ignorance is bliss and most people defending colgan dont even know how bad they have it or how much better their qol could be somewhere that respects their employees. I hope you explain your experiences with your company to all up and coming pilots.

www.alpa.org/colgan

Going to be updated early this week.

You say they broke the "rules" but you don't honestly think that those 'rules' ever actually had anything backing them up did you?

...we only get one vote right?... honestly, if it doesn't pass this time around ... there is something SERIOUSLY wrong

Yeah, same here, I'm a relatively senior FO with the time requirements. When I called to ask about upgrades, they STRESSED that it's based on seniority. yeah, that's fine and I'm totally for that. seriously, who are they trying to BS?
It's a screwed up situation, and if we were working for any decent airline with a contract this kind of thing wouldn't happen, or at least we would get bypass pay. Speaking of bypass pay, I heard that there is a senior FO who's got the times, and apparently, the company told him that since these beech street capts are transitioning to the saab ahead of him, they will give him captain's pay if they don't put him in the next upgrade class or so. I was and still am skeptical, after all this is COLGAN we're talking about here. But the FO himself has told a couple of people about it. If it is indeed true, I'm sure the company would keep it under wraps so they wouldn't have to pay all the other senior/qualified FOs as well.

Actually, rumor has it, there are 2 FOs that are going to be getting captain pay. I'm honestly not sure if it's a bunch of BS or not because I have no credible evidence to back it up with, but I happen to know both of the FOs in question. I just never got a chance to speak with either one of them before I left. If the rumor is true ... well, more power to them. But still ... I don't believe they should be get captain's pay at all until they pass their checkride like everyone else. I think the company should put them in the class they deserve to be in, and leave it at that. Seriously ... think about this ... if they get captain pay as a senior FO ... what's the friggin point in upgrading?! Besides the PIC time, you're getting the best schedule with almost twice the pay ... when you upgrade, you keep the pay and sacrifice the good schedule. The only good thing is the PIC time. Personally, if the rumor is true, I think they should be forced to upgrade when they are offered a class date now. It's one twisted world.

Of course not! Ask Acorn for help - they'll help you to vote as much and as often as you want! :D

once again management is shooting themselves in the foot. Seems like they are trying to make themselves look bad and prove to us even more that we need a union and contract...

Cue the "Juice" in 5,4,3,2,1....................

Don't they call current captains and ask about the FOs before they upgrade them? Guess someone could've ticked off a captain.

Vote YES !

That's kind of funny.. Lil inflamitory.. but funny :)

And you chose to go work there because?!? If anybody decides to work for Colgan, Mesa or wherever they sign up for this. If you want things to change it's simple.......work somewhere else. All that working there does is enable their race to the bottom

OK, first of all, what is your point? He already works at Colgan, so there IS no point is telling him he's stupid for choosing to come here.. Are you saying once someone makes a "mistake" of coming to Colgan, he's not allowed to complain about unfair practices? Are we not friggin human? I'll agree that if they're not doing anything except complaining, they don't really have a right to complain. But you have no idea if this guy could be one of the OC members who has been campaigning hard for the union for the past few months. He might've ended up in a crappy place, but he might be working to change that. You don't know, so who are you to judge? And where do you suggest he work right now? Where is this "somewhere else" that we can migrate to in the state that the industry is currently in?

In his defense, he may have been working there before Pinnacle took them over. And it's not like today you can just pick up and go somewhere else when things change for the worse at your airline. If someone applied to there after Pinnacle bought them, well they were warned...

I dont know man......I think we were all warned pretty well. Not that Im a big union fan, but they did vote that down last year......a union would have prevented this......We all do it to ourselves.

1. I did not call him stupid.
2. At any point over his tenure there he could have benefited from unprecedented hiring at other regionals and have already upgraded elsewhere.
3. Mistakes imply an accident. Going to work there is not a mistake, it is a choice.
4. I suggest he sit tight and be happy he has a job......I dont.
5. "Somewhere else" would be a carrier over the last few years with substantial movement and growth. SkyWest comes to mind.
6. The union vote did not succeed, no reason in dwelling on that.
7. No I dont feel he has much to stand on complaining. We all choose our own.
8. Complaining and action are two different things. Lets not replace one with the other.

1. OK, you didn't call him stupid, but I thought you were implying it when you said he chose to come here. So I guess you don't think he's stupid.
2. He could have benefited from going to another regional.. maybe, maybe not. Maybe he didn't get hired anywhere else. Maybe he lives in Allentown and didn't want to commute. Maybe he could've gotten hired at Comair and would be getting furloughed soon. No one knows his personal situation.
3. Mistakes imply an accident and going to work there is a choice, not a mistake? So are you saying mistakes can't happen by making wrong choices? I guess you are a perfect human being, and the only one on earth at that.
4. If you are suggesting he sit tight, why did you say "if you want things to change, work somewhere else"?
5. Yes, we would all like to go somewhere else better in the past and now and in the future. See #2. What you're suggesting is that he should've gone somewhere better, and I'm saying that that's already in the past and he's already at Colgan, so what is the point of telling someone "you should've done this."?
6. No reason dwelling on the failed union vote? I'm not, I was talking about the election coming up THIS year. THANKS to the guys who've been working hard to change things for the better.

Complaining and action ARE two different things. That's why I said if all that a pilot is doing is complaining, he has no right, but he might also be doing something to change the situation that YOU don't know about, like helping with the campaign. (I don't know if he is or not either, but I do know many of us are.)
Well for me this forum is an outlet for venting so we're all allowed to complain here. And just because he's complaining, you can't assume that he's not backing it up with action.

"This company sucks... your company sucks ... all regional airlines suck" Where does anyone get the idea that they have any right to tell anyone else they made the wrong decision in going to the company that they are working for?!?! Everyone has different reasons for going to the airlines they choose? Is ANY airline perfect?! NO! There is not a single airline out there that is without flaws, no matter which way you care to look at it.

Whether one chooses to go to an airline for a quick upgrade, QOL, more money, better aircraft, to be home every night ... the reasons are endless, and who are we, or anyone else for that matter, to judge anyone's decision? Yeah, we are going to complain about the company we are with because it's not perfect, and at some point or another, something is going to end up sucking. Life isn't fair! We all do what we need to do in order to get through the day.

And Here I am
 

It is so nice to be loved

lean back for a second and think about where this thread has gone... mgmt loves this! A rant/issue is posted publicly and it ends up with pilots bickering with EACH OTHER. Everyone preaches unity and unions, or just claims to all be in this same industry together but we are all just knocking each other down. No, I don't have a solution to recommend- but look at the BIG picture industry wise. A single mgmt group reinventing the wheel can quickly become the "Status quo" which helps nobody. Look at reduced rest, look at low pay rates, look at PBS. These are now "lessons" but unity (throughout the industry, not doing a union ad here) can keep things in our court. This is BS for those at 9L.



That being said- VOTE ALPA. (had to put it in somewhere!)

Man am I glad I didnt go to class on Oct 7!!!

jax, was that really necessary? I hope you find a better gig that fits you elsewhere. Best of luck to ya bud!

Hey man, I heard about that a few days before that upgrade class started. Sorry you had to be the victim of a retarded company. I know you and you are ready to upgrade. It's just one more thing this company does wrong. How about the on time performance list, another joke. The captain I flew with all month was on the CA list for ontime performance but my name was not on the FO list. However, the other CA and FO at our base were on the list. Now, I could care less about being on the list , it's just the point that theres no ryme or reason to it. And how does an FO and FA have anything to do with the ontime performance. It should just be for CA's only. I'll see you at ground in a few weeks, Go Bruins!

captain152- already did... sorry it just sickens me that a company who painted such a rosy picture at the interview runs operations like this. It was my first regional interview though FWIW...

Anyone who even cares about that list is a tool. That is the liars list. Who cares about an ontime performance list when we do not have ACARS.

It is too bad you don't have a union contract that requires seniority promotion. When you're non-union, they can do pretty much what they want and what are you going to say?

Nothing, that's what.

lol cmon now, every single company on earth does this on interviews unless you have a secretly disgruntled guy conducting the interview, I mean they are trying to sell you the company as much as you are trying to sell yourself.

exactly, enough with the high horse BS and stop trying to knock down guys here who are working hard to improve the situation.

Colgan guys will be opening up an ALPA Vote real soon here, at least they are trying to improve things.

I know we r going to have a apla vote but what about teamsters. Someone told me that they had enough cards but I havnt heard about a vote

The only thing you will gain is turboprop PIC (which, IMO, will not get you far). Get hired at a larger regional. Second year FO pay is better than what you will make as a captain! Then upgrade, get jet PIC and go from there!

When there is a vote, you can vote for whoever you want. Even though ALPA intitiated the vote, it doesn't mean that you are restricted to voting for ALPA alone. As long as over 50% of pilots PARTICIPATE in the vote (i.e. vote yes for a union), then whatever union gets the majority of those that participated wins.

Please do yourself a favor!! Ask ANY CHQ, Shuttle, or Republic pilot how they like the teamsters. You might as well stay non-union rather than paying the teamsters.

As of right now I couldn't be happier with the fact that as long as I pass my checkride tomorrow I have a job.... I have a number of friends who are still out working random and mostly boring jobs just to pay the bills..... being furloughed sucks.

And what regional pays 2nd year FOs over $40/hr.?

I'd go with ALPA over Teamsters. ALPA isn't great, but they do at least specialize. They also have many more resources that you just won't get with Teamsters. The ALPA Aeromedical unit is just one small example of a service available to members that you won't get with the others...

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