MESA Tentative Agreement Vote
11-20-2008 | 03:41 PM
#11
*********
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
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I think it's more like $34M in cash.
Also, you only own a few smaller airplanes (like less than ten IIRC).
Most, including the 900's are leased, not owned...you don't get to keep them unless you make the payments, and they do not count as any kind of capital assets (mesa leases are operating leases, not capital leases IIRC).
I'd say closer to hopeless than terrible.
Also, you only own a few smaller airplanes (like less than ten IIRC).
Most, including the 900's are leased, not owned...you don't get to keep them unless you make the payments, and they do not count as any kind of capital assets (mesa leases are operating leases, not capital leases IIRC).
I'd say closer to hopeless than terrible.
We own 24 airplanes, 2 -200's, 8 -700's and 14 -900's. The remaining 111 aircraft are leased.
You are correct about the operating leases. This info comes off the 2007 annual report, so it's a little dated. I don't think any of the above items have changed.
As of June 30, 2008 the Company's cash, cash equivalents, restricted cash and marketable securities were approximately $60.1 million.
This info comes from the 3rd Q earnings report.
11-20-2008 | 03:45 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
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He's always been able to find cash because he has continued taking your hard earned money, gave a small percentage to you just to satisfy probably the worst contract in the industry and took the rest to burn it on HI and China. Good luck man, but it was all at the pilot's expense.
11-20-2008 | 05:00 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Yes it does look bleak. BUT - if there is one thing I give JO credit for, it's finagling money around to make things happen. It may be a lowly way of doing business, but in the end it gets the job done. I think he may be able to scrounge up the money from some place, or in some way. We'll see if he can do it. I'm not sure if filing Ch. 11 will delay the bond payments or not. I don't really know how that works. What I do know is that we (the line flying pilots.... and the FA's and Mx guys and gals) must continue doing our job the best we can, and try not to worry about all that CRAP. If it happens it happens. I'm not going to let the thought of that ruin my holiday season, or my passengers holiday seasons. Worrying about the situation does not help any. Between the Delta case, the bonds due and the aloha lawsuit - we have a lot of CRAP to deal with. Here's hoping to getting through all of it. If we don't, well I've enjoyed flying with you guys, and I'll certainly miss it all. The people at this company rock, and I'm proud to call many of them friends.
Edit: I edited out the "F" word I used twice. I forgot I got a warning for using profanity in another post. I mean are we not adults here?
Edit: I edited out the "F" word I used twice. I forgot I got a warning for using profanity in another post. I mean are we not adults here?
Last edited by de727ups; 11-20-2008 at 09:53 PM. Reason: profanity removed from quote
11-20-2008 | 06:05 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: E-190 FO
Guys,
Everything is re-negotiable. Even if these Bonds are due do you really think the lender will demand the full payment when they know Mesa doesn't have the money. No they will come to Mesa and work out a payment plan to keep Mesa in business. If Mesa shuts down the bond holder gets nothing, Mesa has nothing. If Mesa stays in business the bond holder knows Mesa has contracts through at least 2012 allowing them to make payments. I have been hearing since United and Mesa signed their first contract that United wanted to dump them so I give little weight to that claim. The Aloha lawsuit is not the same as the Hawaiian lawsuit and will be much harder for Aloha to win. (doesn't matter what you think of mesa that is the fact). Doug Parker claims to hate Mesa but at the same time they still work for him and there isn't anyone else that could move in tomorrow and fill in for Mesa. He might refuse to resign but that is still down the road and it will be a slow faze out to allow another carrier to build up the A/C and crews. We all hate JO but lets be realistic here, he will work out a deal just like he did with the last bond that everyone claimed would shut Mesa down. I am not saying that the skies are blue for Mesa cause we all know that is not the fact, but be realistic in the fact that the sky isn't falling and there will be a tomorrow for Mesa wether we want it or not.
Everything is re-negotiable. Even if these Bonds are due do you really think the lender will demand the full payment when they know Mesa doesn't have the money. No they will come to Mesa and work out a payment plan to keep Mesa in business. If Mesa shuts down the bond holder gets nothing, Mesa has nothing. If Mesa stays in business the bond holder knows Mesa has contracts through at least 2012 allowing them to make payments. I have been hearing since United and Mesa signed their first contract that United wanted to dump them so I give little weight to that claim. The Aloha lawsuit is not the same as the Hawaiian lawsuit and will be much harder for Aloha to win. (doesn't matter what you think of mesa that is the fact). Doug Parker claims to hate Mesa but at the same time they still work for him and there isn't anyone else that could move in tomorrow and fill in for Mesa. He might refuse to resign but that is still down the road and it will be a slow faze out to allow another carrier to build up the A/C and crews. We all hate JO but lets be realistic here, he will work out a deal just like he did with the last bond that everyone claimed would shut Mesa down. I am not saying that the skies are blue for Mesa cause we all know that is not the fact, but be realistic in the fact that the sky isn't falling and there will be a tomorrow for Mesa wether we want it or not.
11-20-2008 | 06:37 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,934
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From: Retired
If they're that short on cash, all of you guys working for free wouldn't make up the difference. The CH. 11 threat is pretty empty when you think about that. JO's golden parachute on the other hand might put a better dent in it.
Best of luck guys. That TA is crap and you should vote no.
Best of luck guys. That TA is crap and you should vote no.
11-20-2008 | 07:14 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 686
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From: E170 FO
The RAH contract is full of language like that and they use it to string us up whenever they see fit. Don't tolerate the company's best efforts. Set a line and hold them to it, don't give them wiggle room. I know with BB and WH have done with language like that. I'd be terrified of what JO would do.
11-20-2008 | 08:01 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
From: MD80
Guys,
Everything is re-negotiable. Even if these Bonds are due do you really think the lender will demand the full payment when they know Mesa doesn't have the money. No they will come to Mesa and work out a payment plan to keep Mesa in business. If Mesa shuts down the bond holder gets nothing, Mesa has nothing. If Mesa stays in business the bond holder knows Mesa has contracts through at least 2012 allowing them to make payments. I have been hearing since United and Mesa signed their first contract that United wanted to dump them so I give little weight to that claim. The Aloha lawsuit is not the same as the Hawaiian lawsuit and will be much harder for Aloha to win. (doesn't matter what you think of mesa that is the fact). Doug Parker claims to hate Mesa but at the same time they still work for him and there isn't anyone else that could move in tomorrow and fill in for Mesa. He might refuse to resign but that is still down the road and it will be a slow faze out to allow another carrier to build up the A/C and crews. We all hate JO but lets be realistic here, he will work out a deal just like he did with the last bond that everyone claimed would shut Mesa down. I am not saying that the skies are blue for Mesa cause we all know that is not the fact, but be realistic in the fact that the sky isn't falling and there will be a tomorrow for Mesa wether we want it or not.
Everything is re-negotiable. Even if these Bonds are due do you really think the lender will demand the full payment when they know Mesa doesn't have the money. No they will come to Mesa and work out a payment plan to keep Mesa in business. If Mesa shuts down the bond holder gets nothing, Mesa has nothing. If Mesa stays in business the bond holder knows Mesa has contracts through at least 2012 allowing them to make payments. I have been hearing since United and Mesa signed their first contract that United wanted to dump them so I give little weight to that claim. The Aloha lawsuit is not the same as the Hawaiian lawsuit and will be much harder for Aloha to win. (doesn't matter what you think of mesa that is the fact). Doug Parker claims to hate Mesa but at the same time they still work for him and there isn't anyone else that could move in tomorrow and fill in for Mesa. He might refuse to resign but that is still down the road and it will be a slow faze out to allow another carrier to build up the A/C and crews. We all hate JO but lets be realistic here, he will work out a deal just like he did with the last bond that everyone claimed would shut Mesa down. I am not saying that the skies are blue for Mesa cause we all know that is not the fact, but be realistic in the fact that the sky isn't falling and there will be a tomorrow for Mesa wether we want it or not.
Ha, thanks for a good laugh. Not only are there current pilots licking their lips at the opportunity to jump on former mesa runs but there are airplanes available as well. Piedmont for example can fill in your dash routes very easily. Along with the other dozens of regionals. Also the fact is that just because there will be a void, doesn't mean the majors will be willing to fill it. A reduction in 50 seaters for example are just what the majors are looking for. That is one of the reasons UA wants to get rid of mesa and their underperforming flying.
As far as the payment, first of all I doubt the lenders will be as forgiving this time. And I'm pretty sure these payments are non-negotiable. Mesa has been doing nothing but losing money and more importantly with no future. All they have to do is liquidate and get at least something. No matter what happens JO is screwed, they're going to lose money either way. Even the shareholders know this but the stock is so worthless they're just going to stick around and watch the house burn. Good luck..
11-20-2008 | 09:51 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,357
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
"Edit: I edited out the "F" word I used twice. I forgot I got a warning for using profanity in another post. I mean are we not adults here?"
Hey, nice job. We are all adults and we are trying to keep the forums professional. If you can't make your point without profanity then I think you may have problems being a part of the community here. It's really not that hard to post with acceptable language.
By the way, I'll be editing your above post slightly to keep it in line with what we expect here at APC. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the admins. That would be HSLD or Freight Dog.
Hey, nice job. We are all adults and we are trying to keep the forums professional. If you can't make your point without profanity then I think you may have problems being a part of the community here. It's really not that hard to post with acceptable language.
By the way, I'll be editing your above post slightly to keep it in line with what we expect here at APC. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the admins. That would be HSLD or Freight Dog.
11-21-2008 | 05:36 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 CA
"Edit: I edited out the "F" word I used twice. I forgot I got a warning for using profanity in another post. I mean are we not adults here?"
Hey, nice job. We are all adults and we are trying to keep the forums professional. If you can't make your point without profanity then I think you may have problems being a part of the community here. It's really not that hard to post with acceptable language.
By the way, I'll be editing your above post slightly to keep it in line with what we expect here at APC. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the admins. That would be HSLD or Freight Dog.
Hey, nice job. We are all adults and we are trying to keep the forums professional. If you can't make your point without profanity then I think you may have problems being a part of the community here. It's really not that hard to post with acceptable language.
By the way, I'll be editing your above post slightly to keep it in line with what we expect here at APC. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the admins. That would be HSLD or Freight Dog.
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