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Old 11-11-2008, 10:54 AM   #1  
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Thumbs down Mesa TA

This is for the less-experienced MAG folks out there. I'm a Lama and I finally went over to the Hub to read up on all the details of this TA...

My actual reaction to this TA would not get past the profanity filters...suffice it to say that I cannot believe that the MEC is actually sending this to the pilots...it is worse that the freedom A concessionary contract!

It corrects almost none of the long-standing gaping holes in the MAG contract. Block-or-better might be nice, but the folks most impacted by that are UAX...did you guys get the word that UAL is requiring deicing at the gate, BEFORE you block out? They are enforcing this with monitors. So you shut the door, then sit at the gate for 2-3 hours waiting for the iceman...and it does not count as block. No surprise OJ gave that one up.

Almost no raises, and they are limited to a few folks and only go into effect 2 years down the road IF the company keeps PBS.

Speaking of PBS...that's the real gem in this package. Doesn't look like you guys have any control over the paramters or staffing...standby to be raped! OJ will be able to easily take back ALL of the gains, and then some!

But it get's better... manadatory computer check-in TWO HOURS PRIOR!?!?! Again, the appropriate words won't get past the filter. This is an automated junior-man system, combined with two hours of ready reserve prior to each trip! You guys cannot possibly be that stupid...every trip will get a turn or two (or an overnight) tacked onto the end!

Feedom seat lock? Translation: Out of seniority furlough when DAL wins the lawsuit! I forsee a 100% no vote from the freedom folks...nice divide-and-conquer tactic here! Classic OJ.


As scary as MAG's current situation is for the employees, OJ simply cannot afford a strike right now...don't let him off this easy. A 90% NO vote should send the right message.


I could go on and on. If you haven't already checked out mesahub.com please do so...lot's of experienced folks there who have been around this block before.

Good Luck.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:34 AM   #2  
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2-hour checkin? And I was complaining when Pinnacle tweaked crewtrac so we couldn't checkin from home anymore... yikes..
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #3  
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I agree that we need to vote this contract down. The contractual language is like swiss cheese and I won't vote for anything until the holes are filled. We have experienced they way management exploit loopholes and that's what made everyone so ****ed off.

I would bet the ALPA surveys that were done a year or so ago would have most pilots looking for quality of life improvements. ALPA claims that the way pairings are constructed, PBS and our post award trading system will improve our QOL. I say without contractual language controlling the necessary parameters our QOL will be worse off under this new contract.

I hope my peers can see through the ALPA propaganda and not just vote for block or better, but vote for the long term QOL improvement we need.

Some are frightened if we don't sign this contract that Mesa will go bankrupt and they will be out of a job. I've since changed my view and now realized that if Mesa is on a path to bankruptcy then this contract won't make one bit of difference to the outcome.

We need a contract that pays the pilots what we are worth, not some 2 steps forward 3 steps back settlement. A decent contract may reduce attrition when the majors start hiring and will entice new hires here instead of somewhere else. This will provide stability and help our completion factors, reduce junior assignments and hopefully be one of the bricks in the wall to rebuild the company.

I'm standing firm on a NO vote.

BTW I'm still waiting on a login for the hub. What's the deal. I've never had to wait a week to register for a forum before.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:40 PM   #4  
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Something tells me it's going to be a yes vote. It doesn't take a history major to understand that history repeats itself.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:13 PM   #5  
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I've just read something in the contract that surprised me:

Quote:
Page 47 with reference to the SAP (Schedule Adjustment Period) - until such time that all transactions can be automated, manual transactions (i.e. out of domicile swaps, split requests) are not allowed during the SAP.
This is huge for me. This means I can't just drop that last turn on a pairing to make my last trip home like I can now. There are no options. I can't do it manually, I can't swap it and I can't drop it because it is splitting a pairing.

What does "until such time that all transactions can be automated" mean? How long will that take? Never. Wow this contract really is bad.

Airwillie, who do you know that is voting yes? We need to educate these people. Talk to everyone. Show them the facts. I don't think there is anybody with an ounce of sense that could approve this contract.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:18 PM   #6  
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AirWillie works at GoJet, not Mesa, Airfix.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:32 PM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
I agree that we need to vote this contract down. The contractual language is like swiss cheese and I won't vote for anything until the holes are filled. We have experienced they way management exploit loopholes and that's what made everyone so ****ed off.

I would bet the ALPA surveys that were done a year or so ago would have most pilots looking for quality of life improvements. ALPA claims that the way pairings are constructed, PBS and our post award trading system will improve our QOL. I say without contractual language controlling the necessary parameters our QOL will be worse off under this new contract.

I hope my peers can see through the ALPA propaganda and not just vote for block or better, but vote for the long term QOL improvement we need.


Some are frightened if we don't sign this contract that Mesa will go bankrupt and they will be out of a job. I've since changed my view and now realized that if Mesa is on a path to bankruptcy then this contract won't make one bit of difference to the outcome.

We need a contract that pays the pilots what we are worth, not some 2 steps forward 3 steps back settlement. A decent contract may reduce attrition when the majors start hiring and will entice new hires here instead of somewhere else. This will provide stability and help our completion factors, reduce junior assignments and hopefully be one of the bricks in the wall to rebuild the company.

I'm standing firm on a NO vote.

BTW I'm still waiting on a login for the hub. What's the deal. I've never had to wait a week to register for a forum before.
Yes ALPA did the surveys but this BS TA and all its selling points are a product of your weak MEC. After all, they approved it and they are the ones sending it out for a vote.

Not only do you need a 90+% no vote but you need to replace your MEC reps as well. Doing both will send a huge message to JO that we at MAG won’t accept mediocrity anymore and we will replace those on our MEC who do……..we mean business.

Last edited by JetJock16; 11-11-2008 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 11-11-2008, 02:54 PM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetJock16 View Post
but you need to replace your MEC reps as well.
I don't really know those guys that well and I can't really recommend we replace the MEC reps unless I would be willing to step up to the plate and commit to doing the job myself. Which I am not. I've been in a position like that before and I won't be doing it again and certainly not with my current QOL which has much less home time and flexibility than I expected.

Those guys have been working hard for our benefit. They negotiated a contract that we should all reject. That should be a clear message to our MEC to go get what we need.

I'm not sure of the details of the RLA but maybe the MEC want us to vote no to give them more leaverage but they just can't say that due to some constraints I don't know about. I always try to give people the benefit of doubt.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:12 PM   #9  
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When do you guys vote on this contract?
Good luck to all
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:20 PM   #10  
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Thumbs down MESA Tentative Agreement Facts:

Fellow Professional Airline Pilots,

These are the TERMS of SURRENDER. I've attempted to boil down this new TA as I read it. (Any Corrections Welcome).

Two year agreement with a three month early opener.

Preferential Bidding System based on 12 month bid cycle:
Either party can terminate PBS by 01 Jan 2010
Items to be discontinued if PBS terminated:
a. Scheduled vs. Actual
b. Line guarantee
c. Bid for Training
“PBS will construct as many regular lines as efficiently as practicable”.
“monthly parameters may be changed to optimize schedules.”

Pairing construction:
Two ALPA Scheduling Committee members will be “permitted to participate” in the pairing construction with objectives to “maximize pilot’s flight time during a given duty period” and “ensure the ability to carry out the maketing schedule”.
“The company may withhold up to five percent (5%) of know flying per aircraft”.

Pro-rated minimum days off. When availability “is reduced due to Vacation, Non-Recurrent Training or Leave of Absence, or other absences, days of will be prorated”.

Example: In a 30 Day Month; If awarded 7 Days for Vacation; Then original 11 days off are prorated down to eight for a total of 15 days off for the month. 15 days off total including Vacation.

Minimum Days Off per monthly bid period: 11 days (Line and Reserve)

Minimum pay guarantee for reserve pilots of 75.83 hours.

Scheduled or Actual:
“Pilots will be paid the greater of the scheduled(original trip value) or actual block time (including deadhead time”, calculated by flight segment for the bid period”.

Premium Pay:
Junior assignments 200% rate of equipment flown.
No premium pay for volunteer on scheduled work day.

FLICA continues:
No swaps trades or drops outside of domicile.

Pay Rate Increase:
FO pay increase by 2.1% on 01 Jan 2010.

Improper reassignments
“If an improper reassignment occurs, the pilot will be paid premium pay”.
“The pilot will be returned to his original schedule as soon as practicable”.

Self-Notification: “Pilots will check in for the shift/assignments between 24 and 2 hours prior to the beginning of the first shift/assignment for a trip pairing”.

No decline for Standing Bid/Displacement awards.

One year seat lock for Freedom Certificate awarded/assigned pilots.

I'm voting NO due to:

NO pilot staffing requirements
NO Junior Assignment restrictions
Forced Self-Notification
NO increase in days off for line holders (2 days per yr.)
NO PBS protective language (parameter changes, etc.)
Schedule or Better tied to acceptance of PBS
Line Guarantee tied to acceptance of PBS
Training Bidding tied to acceptance of PBS
NO trip/duty rigs
NO pay increase for line holders
Insulting 2.1% FO pay increase not until 2010 (Inflation rate currently 4.9%)
Vacation, Leave of Absence or Non-Recurrent Training considered days off under prorate schedule
Ambiguous language remains
NO declining Standing/Displacement Awards
NO pay increase for volunteering on scheduled work day
Swaps and Trades limited to domicile
Stressfull and disruptive negotiations begin all over again in two years
Unbelievable term "Improper Assignments" actually in TA
Managements ability to discontinue PBS at their leisure leaving us with NO improvements

I ask everyone posting comments to keep it professional and use constructive language to help convince our pilots at MESA that this TA is substandard and that if we stick together we can send it back for the improvements we deserve. Many of us here at MESA are trying everything we can to improve the industry under the most adversarial circumstances. Please support the MESA Air Group pilots during these difficult times.

Thanks,
Winglet
MESA Line Pilot

Last edited by winglet; 11-11-2008 at 07:06 PM.
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