I instructed for two and a half years (part time) prior to starting class with Air Wisconsin in January 2006. I got my CFI in April 2003 as a sophomore in college and didn't graudate until December 2005 due to my co-op with UPS. I instructed full-time during the summer of 2003 and 2004, and part time during the semesters at college and part time while working at UPS.

When I started class at AWAC, I had my CFI-AIM and somewhere in the ballpark of 700 hours dual given.

 

I instructed for 900 hours in the early 90's and did a fair amount of multi-engine instructing in Apaches and C310s. I would however have to echo BZN, de727 and others regarding some single pilot 135 experience. That was priceless and prepared me for anything. I got to fly a Cherokee Lance at 1200 hours and then all models of Aerostars at 1500 hours, both single pilot. Tough market right now but when you get the 1200 hour IFR 135 minimums, start pumping out resumes it's a blast. Hand walk them into CP's office if you can it is so much better than sending resumes in the blind.

I'll also echo de727 and av8or in that the pay for a job crowd is looked down at from their peers higher than others might think. The pilot population and network is small, remember that when trying to build connections and interview for jobs. Pilots generally get to interview pilots. I would never help out someone from Go-Jets or other outfits that people try to shortcut and step over a fellow aviator.

 

I think I did around 800 or so dual given before going 121.

 

Grew up in aviation, my father was a 32 year Braniff/AA pilot and my Uncle is Ex-Braniff current SWA. I have 2 college degrees and 5 years of experience with Sherwin-Williams as a PC then IM Sales rep. I instructed at Pan Am but only in their ACE program (CRJ), my main gig was with the USAF teaching IFT now IFC students. I was hired by SKW in early 06 into the EMB, I flew the CRJ for 1.5 years then back to the EMB as CA.

I don’t agree with PFT jobs like MPD and I will not assist those who knowingly hurt others to get a step ahead (ex. GoJet & Freedom “A” pilots).

 

Do you guys mind explaining to me how going to MAPD, interviewing and getting hired at Mesa which is an ALPA carrier, and flying the line just like anyone else is considered "undercutting" other pilots?

The logic behind that argument is absolutely absurd!

 

Really? Is that why I can personally name multiple Southwest pilots that were MAPD graduates? Or the fact that the person that recommended MAPD to me was a chief pilot for Alaska? Or maybe you'd prefer the example of one of my good friends from flight school who's father was (and possibly still is) on the hiring board for Continental.

Once again, and I keep saying this over, and over; to look down on someone simply because they chose a different route than you did to earn their ratings is ridiculous. It is an ignorant and idiotic point of view.

If someone has a problem with where I went to school and how I got my job with the airlines, they are more than welcome to take it up with me. Funny thing is, when I jumpseat, I've never had one person say anything negative to me about it. Not a one. On the contrary, I've had many pilots ask for more information about where I went to school because their interested in passing it along to their kids, cousins, friends, etc. that want to become pilots as well. Uh, oh. Not more of us!!!!

 

You misunderstood my point. I wasn't so much 'talking' about the route you chose because frankly I know very little about it, and by the way I'm glad things worked out for you.

Instead, I was saying that just like some people look down on pilots who paid for their jobs (dollars exchanged for logging part 121 pic or sic flight time for example) many also look down on pilots who undercut the coworkers at their sister airlines such as Gojet (as an example).

I actually have a friend at Gojet and he is still my friend however, since he decided to take a job at Gojet I cannot ever recommend him for a job at UPS or anywhere else where I have friends; he knows that and accepts it. We've been friends far too long to end it now simply because of his career choices however, we'll never fly together again.

He chose to go there knowing it was an alter-ego airline and also knowing the company had the audacity of hiring pilots on one end (Gojet) while the management was simultaneously furloughing from the other side (TSA). In other words, he chose a quick upgrade on the backs of his fellow brothers and sisters at TSA. I think that's wrong and many people agree with me. Many do not and I respect their point of view too.

Hiring is all about who you know and who's interviewing you. In the past I did some recruiting at a regional airline and later helped with recruiting at two low cost airlines. Twice, when asked for a recommendation I felt I had to decline the requests; each time I was polite and honest about why I wouldn't recommend the person.

I do not consider myself an ignorant person, neither do I think my view is idiotic.
Idealistic? Maybe... but it's not the fact you or someone else chose a different route than most did - it's when someone conducts himself or herself unethically that I speak out.

In my opinion, I'm simply standing up for our profession...


...and now back to the topic...

How long did you CFI before 1st job?

 

Please, don't be on the defensive. I wasn't specifically referring to you or to MAPD. I did not single you out. I don't know anything about MAPD, in fact I just looked it up. It looks like you train with the hopes of getting a job at the end of training? Your program doesn't sound like the same thing. If you are paying MESA money and have revenue passengers, that to me is PFT. I refered to pilots from Go-Jets or others in PFT programs who blantantly step on toes to get ahead.

You have straight commuter experience and get to fly regional jets right away. You didn't get to instruct, single pilot, charter etc. That was your choice, not a bad one, just a choice. Your network will probably be a bit more limited than someone who has experience at multiple levels. I used to interview. I liked to see a rich and diverse background, that's me personally. Other things like attitude might surface when interviewing you, but not necessarily any negatives regarding MAPD.

 

I agree with what both of you have said. I never got my CFI, but it is something I would really like to do one day. I also never instructed. No doubt that limits the diversity of my references, but I did it for a reason. I left a steady, well paying career to become a pilot. I was working full-time up to when I left for flight school. If I was going to learn to fly, I needed to do so quick and get back to making money since I had financial responsibilities that wouldn't wait around for long. My previous career ruled out part 61 training on my free time, so a full-time all inclusive aviation college was the best option for me. Say what you will about the "pilot factories" but it allowed me to accomplish exactly what I had set out to do, and in a time frame I could afford. I tell this story not to argue my point to those that love to pick arguments over the best way to learn to fly, but to assist others who may be in a similar situation as I that might be reading this thread.

Let me make two things perfectly clear:
1. I would NOT recommend MAPD right now due to the state of the airline industry and the apparent declining quality of the school.
2. I have never flown for free. I've paid to fly in training, but MAPD is not one of those schools where you fly as an F/O for free to gain experience. I've been paid for every hour of 121 flying I've ever done.

This whole argument started over me simply answering a question that was specifically asked of me and one other person by proskuneho. The only reason the thread started going in this direction is because of flame-bait posts like this one:

I agree. Back to the topic. How long did you CFI before your 1st job?

Hate the game, not the player!

 

Just to answer the original post...about 600 hours dual given in a year. Flew some other stuff during that time as well, and had about 1200 hours when I was hired.