Delta hoses ASA again on pass benefits.
01-07-2009, 11:04 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
I understand your frustration. I hate to see anyone have to pay more money. However, there are much bigger problems right now. For your company, I am more concerned about those 80 guys/gals that are now going to be on the street.
01-07-2009, 11:12 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
You're not even making sense. I don't live in Florida, first of all. Second, I'm not talking out my a$$. Have you ever tried to get on a 50 seater in the winter. The only reason non-revs get on at all is because crews count kids and call the dispatcher to lower the extra fuel. I see that stopping.
"My young kids live in MI and I live in FL. I fly into FNT on ASA. I have no problem getting on, but I don't think my fee should triple to do it."
If you are truly going to change your performance in order to gain retribution, further you own agenda, or "apply pressure", then you are in your own private hell, and there is nothing anybody is going to be able to do for you.
Looks like another one slipped through the cracks.
01-07-2009, 11:16 AM
#103
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by DLpilot
I understand your frustration. I hate to see anyone have to pay more money. However, there are much bigger problems right now. For your company, I am more concerned about those 80 guys/gals that are now going to be on the street.
Not carrying non-revs (if you can identify them) only makes the mainline guys hate RJ's (the airplane) even more than they already do. Since at mainline the Weight and Balance is a completely computerized / ops function, few even realize the Captain could be asking his FO to "fix" the numbers. To change anything they would have to have proof and you see where this is going ... it is pointless to try to vent your frustrations at a pilot (or their family) when some middle manager just got a cubicle near a window with their brilliant idea to increase the fees.
Anyway, the weight restrictions are more of a 50 seat issue, right? These days I see more big RJ's than 50's out flying around.
Don't get me wrong, the fee stinks of elderberries. If you are paying, it probably means we will have to also.
01-07-2009, 11:21 AM
#104
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 40
[quote=Blkflyer;532741]
In JP's and others' defense on this subject; we went from sub- to owned and back to sub- not from any of our doing. The arrogance and the "I'm better than you" attitude have worn far past thin. So, the whole "DL owns all the seats, you're a Sub-, we're better than you nahnahnahnah booboo" is not only ignorant. Its also stupid and childish.
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals
) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
And i noticed that most of the posts telling me to S.T.F.U. came from mainline pilots. Mainline pilots who fly on my airplane for less than I can fly on my airplane.
And no, under Delta's rules, you can't jumpseat on Delta or any DCI without paying the fee because your number will come up as invalid, causing them to deny you. They use your pass rider number to list you for the jumpseat. Thus YES, we have to pay to jumpseat.[/QUOTE
One thing is being lost in all of this the jumpseat and non revving is a priv not a right...
When you get it in your head that you are a SUB-Contractor to Mainline you will understand.. Who pays your fuel bill who markets to the customer on your flights who...We are all at the mercy of Mainline and I feel your pain however they make the rules so you either play by them or find something else to do..
And no, under Delta's rules, you can't jumpseat on Delta or any DCI without paying the fee because your number will come up as invalid, causing them to deny you. They use your pass rider number to list you for the jumpseat. Thus YES, we have to pay to jumpseat.[/QUOTE
One thing is being lost in all of this the jumpseat and non revving is a priv not a right...
When you get it in your head that you are a SUB-Contractor to Mainline you will understand.. Who pays your fuel bill who markets to the customer on your flights who...We are all at the mercy of Mainline and I feel your pain however they make the rules so you either play by them or find something else to do..
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals
) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.
01-07-2009, 11:34 AM
#105
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Blkflyer
One more thing if the flight is weight limited, I sure hope you are not fudging numbers...and dont give me the argument that everyone does it, if the numbers dont work out they just dont work out
So, next time you or any other mainliner gets on a tight RJ flight, take the time to thank the crew because their probably the ones that got you on by checking the gate area for your presence and working the numbers correctly.
01-07-2009, 11:56 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 939
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
My young kids live in MI and I live in FL. I fly into FNT on ASA. I have no problem getting on, but I don't think my fee should triple to do it.
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
If I remember correctly, it worked perfectly. They played chicken with the UAL pilots, who quickly flinched and restored the jumpseat priority.
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
You're not even making sense. I don't live in Florida, first of all. Second, I'm not talking out my a$$. Have you ever tried to get on a 50 seater in the winter. The only reason non-revs get on at all is because crews count kids and call the dispatcher to lower the extra fuel. I see that stopping.
Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
Thanks for your opinion. Now I have yours and you have mine. 
01-07-2009, 12:32 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by ohplease!
In JP's and others' defense on this subject; we went from sub- to owned and back to sub- not from any of our doing. The arrogance and the "I'm better than you" attitude have worn far past thin. So, the whole "DL owns all the seats, you're a Sub-, we're better than you nahnahnahnah booboo" is not only ignorant. Its also stupid and childish.
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals
) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.I'll agree to that. Too bad your buddy JP doesn't take that advice...he's too busy bashing on every other airline, especially another regional that went from sub- to owned then back to sub-. (9e)
01-07-2009, 12:57 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 139
[QUOTE=ohplease!;532778]
What does going from wholly owned to non-wholly owned have to do with pass benefits? Is it in you contract somewhere? Perhaps you just got a really good deal for awhile.
As far as the mainline vs. regional stuff, save it. It is irrelevant in the discussion at hand. He was the one that brought up mainline owns all of the seats.
As far as you guys going above and beyond, I have no doubt that some of you do. I also have seen much of the exact opposite. I have seen poor communication with the folks. In fact, I would say that non keeping your passengers in the loop during delays, gate hold outs, etc is the NORM hen I am on an ASA jet. One more disturbing thing I see regularly out of your people is getting off of my jet, in uniform, completely blocking the aisle while getting your bag out of the overhead while our paying pax are standing there waiting. Again, I see it routinely out of ASA crews, and it really chaps my hide. One pilot, a captain, was actually talking on his cell phone, in uniform, while trying to get his bag out of the overhead with one hand, while our paying passengers were looking at him with exasperated stares. Again, this is not exception, but routine, and not very classy at all.
The guy has already exaggerated his position with the Fl vs non-FL thing. Does he or does he not only commute on ASA? My guess is that he is flat out lying, and just looking for a sympathetic ear while displaying transparent bravado. In that respect, he is looking for trouble.
Non-rev benefits have been a source of angst amongst all Delta employees for awhile for the very reason that we are NOT equal. My jet can fly all people with next to no weight restrictions. Yours needs "working of the numbers" in order to carry 45 people if there is any kind of weather at all. Your jet goes to a LOT more places that MORE people don't want to go. Mine goes all over the states, to the popular destinations as well. That is not equal, yet the benefits were for a long time. That was a source of angst for many employees. They see more ASA and Comair employees benefitting than Delta employees. I personally don't use the travel enough for it to matter one way or the other.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy, especially if you approach it with JP attitude as well as his posting history.
Originally Posted by Blkflyer
In JP's and others' defense on this subject; we went from sub- to owned and back to sub- not from any of our doing. The arrogance and the "I'm better than you" attitude have worn far past thin. So, the whole "DL owns all the seats, you're a Sub-, we're better than you nahnahnahnah booboo" is not only ignorant. Its also stupid and childish.
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.
Nobody is better than anyone else. We all do the same job...flying planes. Nobody is more qualified (even mighty Delta has hired 200 hours wonders with absolutely no experience and "helped...hmmm...them through training).
Nobody at ASA asked for RJs...mainline refused them...oops.
We (ASA and I'm sure most of the other lowlife regionals
) have done nothing more than go over and above to do the absolutely best job possible no matter all the obstacles thrown at us to make Delta the best it can be. And believe me when I tell you (mainline guys) that your regional *partners* had (and still do in many cases) many more obstacles to overcome than you could possibly fathom, trying to make YOU look good and make money.As far as the mainline vs. regional stuff, save it. It is irrelevant in the discussion at hand. He was the one that brought up mainline owns all of the seats.
As far as you guys going above and beyond, I have no doubt that some of you do. I also have seen much of the exact opposite. I have seen poor communication with the folks. In fact, I would say that non keeping your passengers in the loop during delays, gate hold outs, etc is the NORM hen I am on an ASA jet. One more disturbing thing I see regularly out of your people is getting off of my jet, in uniform, completely blocking the aisle while getting your bag out of the overhead while our paying pax are standing there waiting. Again, I see it routinely out of ASA crews, and it really chaps my hide. One pilot, a captain, was actually talking on his cell phone, in uniform, while trying to get his bag out of the overhead with one hand, while our paying passengers were looking at him with exasperated stares. Again, this is not exception, but routine, and not very classy at all.
The guy has already exaggerated his position with the Fl vs non-FL thing. Does he or does he not only commute on ASA? My guess is that he is flat out lying, and just looking for a sympathetic ear while displaying transparent bravado. In that respect, he is looking for trouble.
Non-rev benefits have been a source of angst amongst all Delta employees for awhile for the very reason that we are NOT equal. My jet can fly all people with next to no weight restrictions. Yours needs "working of the numbers" in order to carry 45 people if there is any kind of weather at all. Your jet goes to a LOT more places that MORE people don't want to go. Mine goes all over the states, to the popular destinations as well. That is not equal, yet the benefits were for a long time. That was a source of angst for many employees. They see more ASA and Comair employees benefitting than Delta employees. I personally don't use the travel enough for it to matter one way or the other.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't expect a lot of sympathy, especially if you approach it with JP attitude as well as his posting history.
01-07-2009, 01:10 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Captain, CRJ-200, ASA
Posts: 876
I'm lying? You all need to get a life and a new punching bag. The FL thing was a typo.
As oh please alluded to, maybe we at ASA are sick of being kicked in the balls by Delta. all we ever did was try to please, yet we always get treated like the redneck step children. You would feel the same way in my shoes.
I said my piece, now I'm done. Back to your regularly scheduled *****ing.
As oh please alluded to, maybe we at ASA are sick of being kicked in the balls by Delta. all we ever did was try to please, yet we always get treated like the redneck step children. You would feel the same way in my shoes.
I said my piece, now I'm done. Back to your regularly scheduled *****ing.
01-07-2009, 01:15 PM
#110
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
It is the profession I tell you. It runs up and kicks you in the nuts, frequently!
But it sure beats working.
But it sure beats working.
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