Okay, that's it, I'm throwing in the towel!
04-28-2006 | 09:57 AM
#21
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: 737 F/O
Originally Posted by 1013dot25hPa
While it's true that you make 50K+ after 2 or 3 yrs (currently for some and heavily dependent on which outfit you fly for), that is still only 10K more than that forklift driver and you know what, I bet that guy doesn't have to pay off massive amounts of student loans. The forklift driver will still be netting more than you do.
04-28-2006 | 10:15 AM
#22
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Joined: Apr 2005
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From: 737 F/O
Originally Posted by 1013dot25hPa
Exactly Skyhigh. You might be getting my point.
There are very few high paying flying jobs out there. No majors with the exception of UPS and FedEx that hire only a few every so many years. And a small percentage of high paying corporate jobs.
However, my wife as mentioned before, is NOT an exception... In her line of work, operating multi-million dollar equipment, in essence not too far removed from what we are doing, salaries are high. Much higher than flying jobs and there are plenty jobs like hers out there unlike high paying flying jobs.
Also truck drivers will make more money over the span of their careers than most pilots will make over the span of their careers. And I cannot believe that a forklift driver might. Good Lord, I will never think the same of the forklift driver I see at the local distribution center.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that the majority of new pilots will get hired by the regional airlines and unfortunately retire with them as well.
It's fantastic that you are doing something that you love to do, no doubt about it! I love flying as well, and love what I do for a living. That doesn't change the FACT that salaries are far too low as compared to other jobs especially when you consider what it took to become a pilot, the life we live, the responsibility we bear every day and the unfortunate fact that we can loose our jobs when we don't pass that next medical exam or that next checkride.
There are very few high paying flying jobs out there. No majors with the exception of UPS and FedEx that hire only a few every so many years. And a small percentage of high paying corporate jobs.
However, my wife as mentioned before, is NOT an exception... In her line of work, operating multi-million dollar equipment, in essence not too far removed from what we are doing, salaries are high. Much higher than flying jobs and there are plenty jobs like hers out there unlike high paying flying jobs.
Also truck drivers will make more money over the span of their careers than most pilots will make over the span of their careers. And I cannot believe that a forklift driver might. Good Lord, I will never think the same of the forklift driver I see at the local distribution center.
I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that the majority of new pilots will get hired by the regional airlines and unfortunately retire with them as well.
It's fantastic that you are doing something that you love to do, no doubt about it! I love flying as well, and love what I do for a living. That doesn't change the FACT that salaries are far too low as compared to other jobs especially when you consider what it took to become a pilot, the life we live, the responsibility we bear every day and the unfortunate fact that we can loose our jobs when we don't pass that next medical exam or that next checkride.
I agree with you that flying is not the high paying occupation it used to be, but why all of the ranting? If your wife makes 90K and you can pull in 50K at a regional, how much more money do you need? With your time off as a pilot, you could start a side buisness. The tax write offs for owning your own buisness will go along way, and who knows you might even make a few bucks on the side. Spend you free time investing and loking for ways to help your buisness grow.
I can't tell you how to live your life, but if you really enjoy flying, hang in there. Someone has to fly those 787's in the future. Why not you?
04-28-2006 | 10:33 AM
#23
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
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From: CL-65
Flaps9,
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
04-28-2006 | 11:12 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,285
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From: Student Pilot
Originally Posted by 1013dot25hPa
Flaps9,
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
1013dot25hPa:
I agree with what you post, in terms of pay...it's not what it use to be. What ever happened to being fairly compensated for high risk jobs?
I could get back into airport management and in 10 years be making the same as a 10yr Captain...maybe more depending on which airport I'm at and what position (Director or Asst. Director of Airport Operations or higher) I'm in.
On the other hand, being an employee of a major cable company, I'd rather make 24K being an FO...(starting pay) and enjoy the work, as oppose to making 30K to 40K and dread having to come to work everyday like I'm experiencing now.
atp
Last edited by atpwannabe; 04-28-2006 at 11:39 AM.
04-28-2006 | 03:52 PM
#25
Just Plane Stupid
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 463
Likes: 1
From: Captain
I worked at my local airport pumping gas and towing airplanes...Then got lucky with a job flying as an FO on a corporate jet...Then I left and went to American Eagle...Not fun, and low pay, but I never thought of leaving flying....I didn't have parents that could buy my ratings...I didn't have money for college...I just busted my but getting whatever I could...At 29 I was typed on the DC-10 as a captain...And still flying it today in that seat 11 years later...Maybe I didn't turn away from aviation, because I made the real sacrifices that make true professionals...I don't know?...I never got the interviews at any Major airlines with the lack of college, and I don't make what a FedEx 10 driver makes...But I'm doing better then most of the major captains saleries and happy with my job...Stay positive and true to your dreams and you'll find that those driving a forklift will never be happy at there day at work....Sorry for sounding like a preacher...Stay united as a labor group and get the trash out of the corporate offices...Cheers
04-28-2006 | 04:06 PM
#26
Banned
Joined: Feb 2006
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Exactly, Then what?? The odds of making it to a major still are not that good even for a regional captain. If you were to get a job with a major then you can look forward to 10 more years trying to get back what you lost leaving the regional. All the while the guy who fixes your toilet is making more than you. By the time you have made it to anyplace reasonable you wife will be retired. I think you are on to something.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
04-28-2006 | 04:47 PM
#27
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 144
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From: XJT F/O
hey do not take the forklift job, i left that kind of job becuase of all the bullsh34. You think management is bad at the airlines, heck those guys are marry poppins compared to unionzed labours management. The company i worked for gave us a 50 cent an hour raise per year. I basically made the same money for seven years.
04-28-2006 | 06:34 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 500
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From: 737 F/O
Originally Posted by 1013dot25hPa
Flaps9,
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
I completely agree with you. I enjoy flying, love my job, and we're financially definitely not hurting by any means even if both of us loose our jobs.
The point is that something went wrong in this industry. I'm not sure who's fault it is, airlines, unions or we as pilots. Probably a combination.
My initial post was intended to show that "simple" workers like the forklift driver makes more money than we do, definitely to start off with, and maybe even over his entire career span as well. And that is very sad.
I will definitely be hanging in there. There is NO WAY I will do something else but fly, which makes me most likely part of the problem if you look at the larger picture.
Seeing how it plays out at Delta will be interesting. You have a highly educated group of indivduals who I think have reached the point of saying "no more".
I'm a glass half full guy, so I just try and hang in there until things turn around. Trust me I would love to be compensated at a fair level, and I don't think todays wages are "fair".
I've been fortunate to speak with pilots who've been around the block, and they mention there have been downturns before. We just don't know how long this downward spiral will last. Thanks for the good discussion and keep you head up!
04-28-2006 | 07:57 PM
#29
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Dude
Originally Posted by BURflyer
Thread starter and 'skyhigh, wtf are you talking about? It doesn't take 10 years as a F/O for a major to reach a Regional CA level as far as money. First year at the majors maybe but the second year you make as much as CA for regionals. This is the most riddiculous thing I've heard. And who cares what the plumber is making? Aren't you happy with your job?
What I meant was that it would take ten years to get back to the seniority and QOL that you had at the regionals. However these days if you even could get hired at a traditional legacy it might take more than two years to return to your original pay. And lets not forget that the downhill slide is still continuing we havent even begun to see what $80 a barrel will do.
SkyHigh
04-28-2006 | 09:07 PM
#30
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Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Telecom Company, President
All of you who accepted 20 something per flight hour to fly a revenue producing jet need to stop whining about what you dont have. For those of you who have a college degree, you definately do NOT want to check with your college buds one what they are making in other industrys. Then you will really feel like a shumuck.
You chose this career so that you could get paid an "allowence" while playing with your hobby for the first couple of years. Never mind that your wife has to work, and the two of you cant afford the best of resturants on the weekends. That is IF she can see you on the weekend. And Christmas, and Thanksgiving and New Years.
Good luck if you have kids.
So you spend a few years jerking gear and you dont bend any metal, so you get to upgrade and make a decent living wage that you could have had 3 years ago in another industry. Get this, Secretarys are pulling 40 K in the Bay area.
Bottom line is that every person on the planet is making more than Regional FO's. Why? Because they are willing to accept substandard wages.
You chose this career so that you could get paid an "allowence" while playing with your hobby for the first couple of years. Never mind that your wife has to work, and the two of you cant afford the best of resturants on the weekends. That is IF she can see you on the weekend. And Christmas, and Thanksgiving and New Years.
Good luck if you have kids.
So you spend a few years jerking gear and you dont bend any metal, so you get to upgrade and make a decent living wage that you could have had 3 years ago in another industry. Get this, Secretarys are pulling 40 K in the Bay area.
Bottom line is that every person on the planet is making more than Regional FO's. Why? Because they are willing to accept substandard wages.
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