Originally Posted by Lowlevel

I never posted a thread for this earlier because I have been waiting for the ntsb website to update (around the holidays it was about 2 weeks behind), but it seems that it is now updated.
I saw the captain and FO in CVG the night of the incident. They said they were headed to JFK. I was off to somewhere else. The next day, I was back in CVG and saw them both again. They told the story of the night before and stated that they were both pulled off the trip and sent to CVG to meet with FAA, NTSB, ALPA, and company on Monday morning (incident happened on Saturday night). They both seemed quite upset about the whole thing.

The story:
Freedom, landing 22L was cleared to land
Comair, landing 22R was cleared to land
Freedom landed and exited at Juliet
Comair was flaring (FO's leg) when captain noticed ERJ taxing on Juliet seemed to be going faster than he should if he planned on holding short 22R
As OH touched down (captain stated around mid to end of touchdown zone) the ERJ entered 22R.
Both pilots stood hard on brakes and full reverse was used
Aircraft stopped one cenerline marking before Juliet, missing rear of ERJ (which continued to roll across 22R).
Pilots stated that front of aircraft may have missed Erj if they did not stop, but wing would probably have hit.
(full reverse was used until full stop. Note: centerline markings are 120 feet long)
After exiting rwy, Comair asked tower if ERJ was cleared to cross and reply was "He isn't talking to me, I did not clear him. All kinds of alarms went off up here when he entered the rwy"

I was not there, so I don't know. I do know the CA and FO and they don't seem to be the type to lie about this and seemed really upset when I was speaking to them the next day.

I am still trying to find the atc recording. All I have found on that date so far was Freedom Air 6277 not making their turn on climb out from 31L and causing ATC to stop a DAL heavy from climbing into him, but I guess that tape is a forgery too

Originally Posted by Lowlevel

I never posted a thread for this earlier because I have been waiting for the ntsb website to update (around the holidays it was about 2 weeks behind), but it seems that it is now updated.
I saw the captain and FO in CVG the night of the incident. They said they were headed to JFK. I was off to somewhere else. The next day, I was back in CVG and saw them both again. They told the story of the night before and stated that they were both pulled off the trip and sent to CVG to meet with FAA, NTSB, ALPA, and company on Monday morning (incident happened on Saturday night). They both seemed quite upset about the whole thing.

The story:
Freedom, landing 22L was cleared to land
Comair, landing 22R was cleared to land
Freedom landed and exited at Juliet
Comair was flaring (FO's leg) when captain noticed ERJ taxing on Juliet seemed to be going faster than he should if he planned on holding short 22R
As OH touched down (captain stated around mid to end of touchdown zone) the ERJ entered 22R.
Both pilots stood hard on brakes and full reverse was used
Aircraft stopped one cenerline marking before Juliet, missing rear of ERJ (which continued to roll across 22R).
Pilots stated that front of aircraft may have missed Erj if they did not stop, but wing would probably have hit.
(full reverse was used until full stop. Note: centerline markings are 120 feet long)
After exiting rwy, Comair asked tower if ERJ was cleared to cross and reply was "He isn't talking to me, I did not clear him. All kinds of alarms went off up here when he entered the rwy"

I was not there, so I don't know. I do know the CA and FO and they don't seem to be the type to lie about this and seemed really upset when I was speaking to them the next day.

I am still trying to find the atc recording. All I have found on that date so far was Freedom Air 6277 not making their turn on climb out from 31L and causing ATC to stop a DAL heavy from climbing into him, but I guess that tape is a forgery too

Originally Posted by Blkflyer

are you asking for for info so you can be a better pilot or is there something else.

Originally Posted by Lowlevel

After exiting rwy, Comair asked tower if ERJ was cleared to cross and reply was "He isn't talking to me, I did not clear him. All kinds of alarms went off up here when he entered the rwy"

Originally Posted by Boomer

I sure am glad all those alarms went off and saved the day!

Originally Posted by Blkflyer

are you asking for for info so you can be a better pilot or is there something else.

Originally Posted by Blkflyer

Comair dont allow the FMS for Departures cause they are too Cheap to equip all the aircraft with GPS thus the Slant KILO on a ton of their aircraft we all know that if you get a takeoff at KK when you press the to/to the FMS will update and the aircraft will think its at the end of the Runway...ok I digress as far as Tower Being Busy JFK ATC are some of the BEST controllers anywhere on this planet.. Remember the Blue Grass Airport was not Busy at all and we all Lost some Great People that day for what ever reason, everytime I read the Transcript for 191 it sends Chills down my spine cause it could have been anyone of us speaking of Mistakes I dont know how many times someone have saved my behind or I saved theirs the point is we dont know what happen if anything at JFK and when we do it should not matter who the Guilty Parties are what should matter is that we learn from it..

Originally Posted by Lowlevel

Yes, and by reading the NTSB reports or hearing the actual tape, a pilot can learn from other peoples mistakes. I was asking if anyone heard of anything on this incident. If anyone knew a place that one could find out what happened, then I would have read it or listened and learned what happened and that was my goal.
I know that JFK is busy and the controllers are the best, but EVERYONE makes mistakes, especially under a heavy work load such as the international push (which is the time this occurred). If you have been in JFK a lot, you have surely heard a controller make a mistake. Especially the ground controllers that have to deal with Olympic, Freedom, Saudi, Iberia, TAM, and other non-English speaking crews every day. The controllers earn their paychecks there every second that they work.

Originally Posted by Blkflyer

In your List of the airlines above you forgot to Mention Comair... they have and Do Make errors too, Maybe I am nit picking the way you pose your question cause it seem like Flame anyway have fun.. Maybe during your Next MV this will be a First Look item..