Uh Oh. Mesa just cancelled the note agrmnt
02-10-2009, 09:48 AM
#63
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,430
Originally Posted by TheDashRocks
This flawed and oversimplified logic is used by some on this forum to justify rooting for the loss of 1500 pilot jobs. The nerve of those MAG prostitutes trying to move their careers along by earning an ATP and gaining PIC experience. Why can't everyone take advantage of American Eagle's decade-long, right seat seasoning process?
Originally Posted by TheDashRocks
The Union pilots of Mesa Air Group fought a successful battle to convert a non-union alter ego into a union operation. Doing so required a long term strategic vision and the willingness to eat some crappy contract provisions. This move benefited the union pilots as a whole. However in return, the uninformed refer to this pilot group as "bottom-feeders".
Originally Posted by TheDashRocks
In a time of economic downturn, the Mesa MEC successfully won an improved contract, which will be up for negotiation in two years.
Ultimately mesa is sub-par. The management and corporate climate is subpar. The pilot group's collective self-respect and backbone are lacking. I left because I was afraid of exactly this happening...another cave-in. I actually wanted to stay and go on strike just to exact my share of pain from OJ. I thought a strike was guaranteed....glad I didn't stick around for that.
Maybe you guys will do better in two years, but until then you don't really have any bragging rights.
BTW, how is the implementation coming along on that new contract? Did OJ hold up his end of the bargain in a reasonable time frame? PBS is going to hurt real bad with OJ pulling the strings...
Originally Posted by TheDashRocks
There are market forces at work much larger than one pilot group. Mesaba flying in SLC? Are they taking Skywest flying? Flying shifts all the time, yet when Mesa shows up somewhere, the shrieking starts.
I'm not bashing anyone, and I don't want a bunch of people unemployed...I wouldn't waste my time on that. I am sharing my experience and perspective in hopes of educating entry-level pilots and mesa FO's that there are much better alternatives (when hiring resumes). I would of course like to see OJ out of this industry...he should be running a telemarketing boiler-room, not an airline. Or maybe in an orange jumpsuit
02-10-2009, 10:04 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Reasonable to avoid a ten-year upgrade.
This argument worked somewhat until 2008...I gave mag the benefit of the doubt, since the rally cry was to "Fix it Up or Burn it Down in 2008". The reality was the MEC screwed up...they could have killed freedom without concessions (the lawsuit was already in progress).
Um, no. Compared the rest of the industry it is highly concessionary. The mag pilot group had OJ between a rock and a hard place...and that opportunity does not happen every year. He had a host of critical issues to address and was not in a good position for a protracted contract battle. But the 418 handed him a Hanuka present...he got an industry-leading contract (from management perspective) without a fight!
Ultimately mesa is sub-par. The management and corporate climate is subpar. The pilot group's collective self-respect and backbone are lacking. I left because I was afraid of exactly this happening...another cave-in. I actually wanted to stay and go on strike just to exact my share of pain from OJ. I thought a strike was guaranteed....glad I didn't stick around for that.
Maybe you guys will do better in two years, but until then you don't really have any bragging rights.
BTW, how is the implementation coming along on that new contract? Did OJ hold up his end of the bargain in a reasonable time frame? PBS is going to hurt real bad with OJ pulling the strings...
SKW is covering some flying in ATL while Mesaba is in SLC...no net reduction in flying, just an annoying time-zone penalty for early wakeups.
I'm not bashing anyone, and I don't want a bunch of people unemployed...I wouldn't waste my time on that. I am sharing my experience and perspective in hopes of educating entry-level pilots and mesa FO's that there are much better alternatives (when hiring resumes). I would of course like to see OJ out of this industry...he should be running a telemarketing boiler-room, not an airline. Or maybe in an orange jumpsuit
This argument worked somewhat until 2008...I gave mag the benefit of the doubt, since the rally cry was to "Fix it Up or Burn it Down in 2008". The reality was the MEC screwed up...they could have killed freedom without concessions (the lawsuit was already in progress).
Um, no. Compared the rest of the industry it is highly concessionary. The mag pilot group had OJ between a rock and a hard place...and that opportunity does not happen every year. He had a host of critical issues to address and was not in a good position for a protracted contract battle. But the 418 handed him a Hanuka present...he got an industry-leading contract (from management perspective) without a fight!
Ultimately mesa is sub-par. The management and corporate climate is subpar. The pilot group's collective self-respect and backbone are lacking. I left because I was afraid of exactly this happening...another cave-in. I actually wanted to stay and go on strike just to exact my share of pain from OJ. I thought a strike was guaranteed....glad I didn't stick around for that.
Maybe you guys will do better in two years, but until then you don't really have any bragging rights.
BTW, how is the implementation coming along on that new contract? Did OJ hold up his end of the bargain in a reasonable time frame? PBS is going to hurt real bad with OJ pulling the strings...
SKW is covering some flying in ATL while Mesaba is in SLC...no net reduction in flying, just an annoying time-zone penalty for early wakeups.
I'm not bashing anyone, and I don't want a bunch of people unemployed...I wouldn't waste my time on that. I am sharing my experience and perspective in hopes of educating entry-level pilots and mesa FO's that there are much better alternatives (when hiring resumes). I would of course like to see OJ out of this industry...he should be running a telemarketing boiler-room, not an airline. Or maybe in an orange jumpsuit
Hell No I dont want him running a call center. How did they get my Cell number anyway..
02-10-2009, 10:12 AM
#66
VHR-very happily retired
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by TheDashRocks
This flawed and oversimplified logic is used by some on this forum to justify rooting for the loss of 1500 pilot jobs. The nerve of those MAG prostitutes trying to move their careers along by earning an ATP and gaining PIC experience. Why can't everyone take advantage of American Eagle's decade-long, right seat seasoning process?
The Union pilots of Mesa Air Group fought a successful battle to convert a non-union alter ego into a union operation. Doing so required a long term strategic vision and the willingness to eat some crappy contract provisions. This move benefited the union pilots as a whole. However in return, the uninformed refer to this pilot group as "bottom-feeders".
In a time of economic downturn, the Mesa MEC successfully won an improved contract, which will be up for negotiation in two years.
Many of us, within and without Mesa, feel deep sympathy for the Aloha folks who have lost their jobs. Many of us feel the same sympathy for the Midwest Airlines pilots on furlough while their routes are flown by E170's crewed by much lower paid pilots. I have not seen the same level of angst and anger directed at RAH pilots as has been directed at MAG pilots.
There are market forces at work much larger than one pilot group. Mesaba flying in SLC? Are they taking Skywest flying? Flying shifts all the time, yet when Mesa shows up somewhere, the shrieking starts.
The Union pilots of Mesa Air Group fought a successful battle to convert a non-union alter ego into a union operation. Doing so required a long term strategic vision and the willingness to eat some crappy contract provisions. This move benefited the union pilots as a whole. However in return, the uninformed refer to this pilot group as "bottom-feeders".
In a time of economic downturn, the Mesa MEC successfully won an improved contract, which will be up for negotiation in two years.
Many of us, within and without Mesa, feel deep sympathy for the Aloha folks who have lost their jobs. Many of us feel the same sympathy for the Midwest Airlines pilots on furlough while their routes are flown by E170's crewed by much lower paid pilots. I have not seen the same level of angst and anger directed at RAH pilots as has been directed at MAG pilots.
There are market forces at work much larger than one pilot group. Mesaba flying in SLC? Are they taking Skywest flying? Flying shifts all the time, yet when Mesa shows up somewhere, the shrieking starts.
02-10-2009, 10:25 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: R U Serious?
Posts: 260
The reason JO can't declare BK.....gives their codeshare partners outs on the current contracts. IE, the shell game is being played with no balls under any of the 3 shells.....so once the spinning stops, not so good.
I was one of the 700+ that left for greener pastures in 2007 and I wish my former brothers/sisters luck but life is better most ANYWHERE else.
If MESA folds and loses everything and pilots are out of jobs, they will lose seniority, and pay, and jobs temporarily....but most of the flying will still have to be done by the other regionals/mainline partners. This movement of jobs to better places while a tough pill to swallow is better for the aviation community as a whole!
I was one of the 700+ that left for greener pastures in 2007 and I wish my former brothers/sisters luck but life is better most ANYWHERE else.
If MESA folds and loses everything and pilots are out of jobs, they will lose seniority, and pay, and jobs temporarily....but most of the flying will still have to be done by the other regionals/mainline partners. This movement of jobs to better places while a tough pill to swallow is better for the aviation community as a whole!
02-10-2009, 10:42 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
Originally Posted by powrful1
The reason JO can't declare BK.....gives their codeshare partners outs on the current contracts. IE, the shell game is being played with no balls under any of the 3 shells.....so once the spinning stops, not so good.
I was one of the 700+ that left for greener pastures in 2007 and I wish my former brothers/sisters luck but life is better most ANYWHERE else.
If MESA folds and loses everything and pilots are out of jobs, they will lose seniority, and pay, and jobs temporarily....but most of the flying will still have to be done by the other regionals/mainline partners. This movement of jobs to better places while a tough pill to swallow is better for the aviation community as a whole!
I was one of the 700+ that left for greener pastures in 2007 and I wish my former brothers/sisters luck but life is better most ANYWHERE else.
If MESA folds and loses everything and pilots are out of jobs, they will lose seniority, and pay, and jobs temporarily....but most of the flying will still have to be done by the other regionals/mainline partners. This movement of jobs to better places while a tough pill to swallow is better for the aviation community as a whole!
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