Visual Approach
02-12-2009, 07:28 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: CL-65, Right
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by caboarder2001
Which missed are you going to fly? The ILS missed? The VOR missed? The GPS missed? One can turn you left, one can turn you right. You cannot fly a published missed when cleared for a visual. You have to fly the pattern, because thats what ATC is expecting.
Going around on a visual without comms seems to be a real gray area though. I understand your point, I am cleared for the visual which does not have a published missed approach procedure, so its anybody's guess as to where my rogue airplane is going.
I don't like the idea of blindly crossing the departure path of an active runway, nor do I fancy the thought of 'fitting myself in' to downwind at a big hub. Especially during a mass arrival.
I'm curious as to what the group consensus is going to be here.
02-12-2009, 07:29 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,803
Good question...if I have time I might set up an ILS, but I'll typically keep my head out the windscreen where it is supposed to be on a visual. Don't go too fast, slow, and don't overshoot (in the case of parallels), and you're golden.
02-12-2009, 07:31 AM
#14
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Posts: 2,633
Originally Posted by Jay5150
Disagree with you as far as the missed.
Once you have been cleared for and accept a visual approach clearance, the ILS missed no longer applies. ATC is not expecting or desiring you to fly the published missed, especially if it has a quick turn in it as many airports in congested airspace do.
Once you have been cleared for and accept a visual approach clearance, the ILS missed no longer applies. ATC is not expecting or desiring you to fly the published missed, especially if it has a quick turn in it as many airports in congested airspace do.
02-12-2009, 07:31 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
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Posts: 3,803
Sabo, typically the downwinds for IFR arrivals at the hub are much higher than the 1500 ft turbojet VFR downwind...I wouldn't worry too much -- tower will get back with missed instructions immediately after you call the go-around.
02-12-2009, 07:36 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
Sabo, typically the downwinds for IFR arrivals at the hub are much higher than the 1500 ft turbojet VFR downwind...I wouldn't worry too much -- tower will get back with missed instructions immediately after you call the go-around.
02-12-2009, 07:39 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
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Well if you're blasting off 15 miles to the SE towards a VOR to hold, there is no chance you'll see the lightgun signals off your tail-end LoL...in any semblance of a traffic pattern, however, you'll be sure to catch them. Just my justification to help me sleep at night 
02-12-2009, 07:42 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Skeptical
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Might be time to review the AIM:
b. Operating to an Airport Without Weather Reporting Service. ATC will advise the pilot when weather is not available at the destination airport. ATC may initiate a visual approach provided there is a reasonable assurance that weather at the airport is a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater (e.g., area weather reports, PIREPs, etc.).
c. Operating to an Airport With an Operating Control Tower. Aircraft may be authorized to conduct a visual approach to one runway while other aircraft are conducting IFR or VFR approaches to another parallel, intersecting, or converging runway. When operating to airports with parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet, the succeeding aircraft must report sighting the preceding aircraft unless standard separation is being provided by ATC. When operating to parallel runways separated by at least 2,500 feet but less than 4,300 feet, controllers will clear/vector aircraft to the final at an angle not greater than 30 degrees unless radar, vertical, or visual separation is provided during the turn-on. The purpose of the 30 degree intercept angle is to reduce the potential for overshoots of the final and to preclude side-by-side operations with one or both aircraft in a belly-up configuration during the turn-on. Once the aircraft are established within 30 degrees of final, or on the final, these operations may be conducted simultaneously. When the parallel runways are separated by 4,300 feet or more, or intersecting/converging runways are in use, ATC may authorize a visual approach after advising all aircraft involved that other aircraft are conducting operations to the other runway. This may be accomplished through use of the ATIS.
d. Separation Responsibilities. If the pilot has the airport in sight but cannot see the aircraft to be followed, ATC may clear the aircraft for a visual approach; however, ATC retains both separation and wake vortex separation responsibility. When visually following a preceding aircraft, acceptance of the visual approach clearance constitutes acceptance of pilot responsibility for maintaining a safe approach interval and adequate wake turbulence separation.
e. A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower. At uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to remain clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the aircraft is expected to remain clear of clouds and contact ATC as soon as possible for further clearance. Separation from other IFR aircraft will be maintained under these circumstances.
f. Visual approaches reduce pilot/controller workload and expedite traffic by shortening flight paths to the airport. It is the pilot's responsibility to advise ATC as soon as possible if a visual approach is not desired.
g. Authorization to conduct a visual approach is an IFR authorization and does not alter IFR flight plan cancellation responsibility.
REFERENCE-
AIM, Canceling IFR Flight Plan, Paragraph 5-1-14.
h. Radar service is automatically terminated, without advising the pilot, when the aircraft is instructed to change to advisory frequency.
5-4-22. Visual Approach
a. A visual approach is conducted on an IFR flight plan and authorizes a pilot to proceed visually and clear of clouds to the airport. The pilot must have either the airport or the preceding identified aircraft in sight. This approach must be authorized and controlled by the appropriate air traffic control facility. Reported weather at the airport must have a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater. ATC may authorize this type approach when it will be operationally beneficial. Visual approaches are an IFR procedure conducted under IFR in visual meteorological conditions. Cloud clearance requirements of 14 CFR Section 91.155 are not applicable, unless required by operation specifications.b. Operating to an Airport Without Weather Reporting Service. ATC will advise the pilot when weather is not available at the destination airport. ATC may initiate a visual approach provided there is a reasonable assurance that weather at the airport is a ceiling at or above 1,000 feet and visibility 3 miles or greater (e.g., area weather reports, PIREPs, etc.).
c. Operating to an Airport With an Operating Control Tower. Aircraft may be authorized to conduct a visual approach to one runway while other aircraft are conducting IFR or VFR approaches to another parallel, intersecting, or converging runway. When operating to airports with parallel runways separated by less than 2,500 feet, the succeeding aircraft must report sighting the preceding aircraft unless standard separation is being provided by ATC. When operating to parallel runways separated by at least 2,500 feet but less than 4,300 feet, controllers will clear/vector aircraft to the final at an angle not greater than 30 degrees unless radar, vertical, or visual separation is provided during the turn-on. The purpose of the 30 degree intercept angle is to reduce the potential for overshoots of the final and to preclude side-by-side operations with one or both aircraft in a belly-up configuration during the turn-on. Once the aircraft are established within 30 degrees of final, or on the final, these operations may be conducted simultaneously. When the parallel runways are separated by 4,300 feet or more, or intersecting/converging runways are in use, ATC may authorize a visual approach after advising all aircraft involved that other aircraft are conducting operations to the other runway. This may be accomplished through use of the ATIS.
d. Separation Responsibilities. If the pilot has the airport in sight but cannot see the aircraft to be followed, ATC may clear the aircraft for a visual approach; however, ATC retains both separation and wake vortex separation responsibility. When visually following a preceding aircraft, acceptance of the visual approach clearance constitutes acceptance of pilot responsibility for maintaining a safe approach interval and adequate wake turbulence separation.
e. A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower. At uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to remain clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the aircraft is expected to remain clear of clouds and contact ATC as soon as possible for further clearance. Separation from other IFR aircraft will be maintained under these circumstances.
f. Visual approaches reduce pilot/controller workload and expedite traffic by shortening flight paths to the airport. It is the pilot's responsibility to advise ATC as soon as possible if a visual approach is not desired.
g. Authorization to conduct a visual approach is an IFR authorization and does not alter IFR flight plan cancellation responsibility.
REFERENCE-
AIM, Canceling IFR Flight Plan, Paragraph 5-1-14.
h. Radar service is automatically terminated, without advising the pilot, when the aircraft is instructed to change to advisory frequency.
02-12-2009, 08:04 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
e. A visual approach is not an IAP and therefore has no missed approach segment. If a go around is necessary for any reason, aircraft operating at controlled airports will be issued an appropriate advisory/clearance/instruction by the tower. At uncontrolled airports, aircraft are expected to remain clear of clouds and complete a landing as soon as possible. If a landing cannot be accomplished, the aircraft is expected to remain clear of clouds and contact ATC as soon as possible for further clearance. Separation from other IFR aircraft will be maintained under these circumstances.
I couldn't have said it with such authority - but that would have been my guess. Remain clear of clouds and attempt contact. If unable - remain clear of clouds and sequence visually. Tat is what I would have done at my airfield for example - but I admit that Pt 121 operations are very different. I would not have thought of conducting a instrument missed approach though. This thread - and the similar thread - have been very educational. Thanks all.
USMCFLYR
02-12-2009, 08:05 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATL
Posts: 413
If you have to go around then you do your lost comm procedures, ie squawk 7600. The reason we squawk 7600 is to ALERT ATC that we are no comm. They should then expect a traffic pattern to return to land while they clear the area. They are not going to keep funneling traffic to the airport with a 7600 on a go-around. This should be no different than losing comm on the arrival. Squawk 7600, proceed to a fix and begin an approach at your ETA like we have all learned before.
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