Can somebody tell me why?
04-25-2009 | 03:59 PM
#22
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From: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Originally Posted by laserman2431
If you don't like how the CA runs the show, shut up and pretend that you do. If you're a Captain and your FO doesn't like the way you run the show, tell him/her to shut up and pretend that he/she does.
04-25-2009 | 04:18 PM
#23
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From: New Hire
Do what is right for the world around me? How is starting the APU to be comfortable doing something wrong?
04-25-2009 | 04:20 PM
#24
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From: New Hire
Agree on the environmental aspect.
There are also other ways to keep the cabin comfortable. Closing the shades and opening the gaspers during a turn can help.
On the job security end, you are talking about cost -vs- comfort. If you give the pax a choice between saving a couple bux on the ticket price -vs- maybe being a little warm for a few minutes while waiting for the push, what do you think the pax would say? The businessman/woman who didn't pay for the ticket anyway would rather not have the sweat stains under his/her arms and maybe a little odor problem. I think the Southwest crowd would be fine with a little sweatiness if it meant they could save another $2.50 off the ticket price.
As Compass is part of the Delta system, I have always felt that Delta would like to save the fuel but is willing to spend it for passenger comfort. I believe they leave it to the judgment of the crew. I've always tried to find a balance.
I think the guidance should come from the company. Personally, I prefer to stay out of marketing decisions and just stick to operating the equipment how they tell me to. If the company doesn't want to provide guidance, Then I would say that the Captain is Pilot in Command. If you want to decide when to run the APU, maybe you should upgrade.
I've noticed from your previous post that you are often seeking an incentive from your employer. Are you saying that you should get extra for helping the company remain viable? Many people feel that they will experience success if the company they work for experiences success.
There are also other ways to keep the cabin comfortable. Closing the shades and opening the gaspers during a turn can help.
On the job security end, you are talking about cost -vs- comfort. If you give the pax a choice between saving a couple bux on the ticket price -vs- maybe being a little warm for a few minutes while waiting for the push, what do you think the pax would say? The businessman/woman who didn't pay for the ticket anyway would rather not have the sweat stains under his/her arms and maybe a little odor problem. I think the Southwest crowd would be fine with a little sweatiness if it meant they could save another $2.50 off the ticket price.
As Compass is part of the Delta system, I have always felt that Delta would like to save the fuel but is willing to spend it for passenger comfort. I believe they leave it to the judgment of the crew. I've always tried to find a balance.
I think the guidance should come from the company. Personally, I prefer to stay out of marketing decisions and just stick to operating the equipment how they tell me to. If the company doesn't want to provide guidance, Then I would say that the Captain is Pilot in Command. If you want to decide when to run the APU, maybe you should upgrade.
I've noticed from your previous post that you are often seeking an incentive from your employer. Are you saying that you should get extra for helping the company remain viable? Many people feel that they will experience success if the company they work for experiences success.
04-25-2009 | 04:24 PM
#25
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From: New Hire
RIP G.C.
04-25-2009 | 05:05 PM
#26
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From: CA
Another thing I notice about some of the guys that are so conscious about saving 50lbs of fuel to save the company some money is the fact that some of them fail to realize the APU is a turbine engine. I've flown with some captains that turn the APU on when we pull into the gate because they dont want to wait on the ramp agent to plug in the GPU, then they turn it off as soon as we get ground power. The more cycle you put on a turbine engine you reduce the life of that engine. These are the same captains that do a single engine taxi at 83,000lbs and blast everybody behind them with all the extra power needed.
04-25-2009 | 05:14 PM
#27
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From: Non flying, pays better than any front seat, home every night, not missing the crashpad/
Can somebody tell me why some Captains wait to start the APU if the temperature is even remotely uncomfortable? The airline I work at has no profit sharing or and incentives whatsoever, yet some Captains would "rather wait" to start it because they want to save gas. ARE YOU KIDDING?! Until our management starts thinking a little less about themselves there should be no hesitation to leave the second engine running and hold of on the APU. I would love nothing more than to work hard to save gas, but where's the incentive?
04-25-2009 | 05:15 PM
#28
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From: New Hire
Starting the APU allows you to shut both engines down at the gate while waiting for the rampers to plug in the GPU which can take some time as you may know. So if you are trying to say you were furloughed do to APU usage, you need to think again.
04-25-2009 | 06:15 PM
#29
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Another thing I notice about some of the guys that are so conscious about saving 50lbs of fuel to save the company some money is the fact that some of them fail to realize the APU is a turbine engine. I've flown with some captains that turn the APU on when we pull into the gate because they dont want to wait on the ramp agent to plug in the GPU, then they turn it off as soon as we get ground power. The more cycle you put on a turbine engine you reduce the life of that engine. These are the same captains that do a single engine taxi at 83,000lbs and blast everybody behind them with all the extra power needed.
SWA can do it. Why can't everyone else? Fine if they can't, but expect different actions from the crew (such as starting the APU approaching the gate) because of the inability to get power available to the plane.
04-25-2009 | 06:55 PM
#30
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From: Big...So Big
This whole thread is just ridiculous! Take this example:
COMAIR
1) Only DCI airline to run PPASS, a fuel savings system that was designed to save fuel by flying sloooooow. Ever wonder why you are flying a Dash 8 and catching up to a Comair CRJ? Some of the cruise altitude speeds are just amazing, .62 or .64 at 35K! There you are, flying a jet, high altitude, and doing 210 indicated! If you fly slow, you take longer to get where you're going, thus costing more to operate (crew pay, maintenance, etc.) so where the savings comes from is just smoke and mirrors (you show fuel savings, but cost more to operate, but HEY WE SAVED FUEL!) Or did we? If I fly at .78 and get there in 2 hours vs .62 and 2.5 hours of fuel burn, how much is actually saved?
2) Comair has an APU program and most of the CVG crews are big on this. They pull in, no ground A/C, on a 95 degree day, and shut down! If you were in the back of a plane with 69 other people in front of you before you could get out of this ever increasingly hot tin can, would you fly Delta again? If you had a meeting you're headed for, and you get off soaking with sweat, would you chose that airline again. Lost customers=lost income. And no, ground does not hook up external A/C at most OH stations.
3) Comair planes use single engine taxi, thus saving fuel
4) Comair engines are not started until after being pushed back (at CVG), not during the push back, thus fuel savings.
And after all these amazing fuel saving programs, Delta says Comair is STILL THE MOST EXPENSIVE REGIONAL THEY HAVE.
AND, here is the best part.....298 furloughed pilots and around 50 furloughed FA's! Comair's pilot numbers are down 700 since 2005! And guess what, it ain't over yet! More furloughs expected in Autumn!
So, what did we learn?
1. Saving fuel WILL NOT SAVE YOUR JOB
2. Not using the APU will **** off customers and your airline will lose income
3. Saving a few gallons of fuel by not using the APU will not save your airline.
COMAIR
1) Only DCI airline to run PPASS, a fuel savings system that was designed to save fuel by flying sloooooow. Ever wonder why you are flying a Dash 8 and catching up to a Comair CRJ? Some of the cruise altitude speeds are just amazing, .62 or .64 at 35K! There you are, flying a jet, high altitude, and doing 210 indicated! If you fly slow, you take longer to get where you're going, thus costing more to operate (crew pay, maintenance, etc.) so where the savings comes from is just smoke and mirrors (you show fuel savings, but cost more to operate, but HEY WE SAVED FUEL!) Or did we? If I fly at .78 and get there in 2 hours vs .62 and 2.5 hours of fuel burn, how much is actually saved?
2) Comair has an APU program and most of the CVG crews are big on this. They pull in, no ground A/C, on a 95 degree day, and shut down! If you were in the back of a plane with 69 other people in front of you before you could get out of this ever increasingly hot tin can, would you fly Delta again? If you had a meeting you're headed for, and you get off soaking with sweat, would you chose that airline again. Lost customers=lost income. And no, ground does not hook up external A/C at most OH stations.
3) Comair planes use single engine taxi, thus saving fuel
4) Comair engines are not started until after being pushed back (at CVG), not during the push back, thus fuel savings.
And after all these amazing fuel saving programs, Delta says Comair is STILL THE MOST EXPENSIVE REGIONAL THEY HAVE.
AND, here is the best part.....298 furloughed pilots and around 50 furloughed FA's! Comair's pilot numbers are down 700 since 2005! And guess what, it ain't over yet! More furloughs expected in Autumn!
So, what did we learn?
1. Saving fuel WILL NOT SAVE YOUR JOB
2. Not using the APU will **** off customers and your airline will lose income
3. Saving a few gallons of fuel by not using the APU will not save your airline.
