Can somebody tell me why?
04-25-2009 | 07:35 PM
#32
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From: 7ER B...whatever that means.
We had something published (it was either an ops bulletin or it might even be in the FOM or CFM) stating that the break even point for sitting at the gate with an engine running waiting for ground power vs. starting the APU was 8 minutes. Meaning you would have to sit there with the brake set and an engine running for EIGHT minutes before it was more cost effective to start the APU. Now of course that number varies depending on fuel prices and the terms associated with the APU lease, company policy, etc. but personally, I was rather surprised to learn that.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 04-25-2009 at 09:18 PM.
04-25-2009 | 09:02 PM
#34
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From: New Hire
We had something published (it was either an ops bulletin or it might even be in the FOM or CFM) stating that the break even point for sitting at the gate with an engine running waiting for ground power vs. starting the APU was 8 minutes. Meaning you would have to sit there with the break set and an engine running for EIGHT minutes before it was more cost effective to start the APU. Now of course that number varies depending on fuel prices and the terms associated with the APU lease, company policy, etc. but personally, I was rather surprised to learn that.
Our company has a 1.5 minute policy...most here don't know that. Honestly I don't care what it is. It it's uncomfortable, it's coming on!
04-25-2009 | 09:15 PM
#35
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From: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Honestly though, I think you're getting wrapped around the axle for no reason. If its hot, start the APU. If the captain questions you, explain your reason (show him the ball sweat on your seat if you have to). If he is particularly difficult about it, see if you can get the FA on your side. If he is still being a pill, then I guess you'll have to decide if being a few degrees cooler is worth the aggravation of butting heads with this guy for the next 4 days. Pick your battles man. If it's that important to you or it affects safety, speak up! Otherwise suffer in silence.
04-25-2009 | 09:50 PM
#37
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04-25-2009 | 09:55 PM
#38
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From: DAL Pilot
This whole thread is just ridiculous! Take this example:
COMAIR
1) Only DCI airline to run PPASS, a fuel savings system that was designed to save fuel by flying sloooooow. Ever wonder why you are flying a Dash 8 and catching up to a Comair CRJ? Some of the cruise altitude speeds are just amazing, .62 or .64 at 35K! There you are, flying a jet, high altitude, and doing 210 indicated! If you fly slow, you take longer to get where you're going, thus costing more to operate (crew pay, maintenance, etc.) so where the savings comes from is just smoke and mirrors (you show fuel savings, but cost more to operate, but HEY WE SAVED FUEL!) Or did we? If I fly at .78 and get there in 2 hours vs .62 and 2.5 hours of fuel burn, how much is actually saved?
2) Comair has an APU program and most of the CVG crews are big on this. They pull in, no ground A/C, on a 95 degree day, and shut down! If you were in the back of a plane with 69 other people in front of you before you could get out of this ever increasingly hot tin can, would you fly Delta again? If you had a meeting you're headed for, and you get off soaking with sweat, would you chose that airline again. Lost customers=lost income. And no, ground does not hook up external A/C at most OH stations.
3) Comair planes use single engine taxi, thus saving fuel
4) Comair engines are not started until after being pushed back (at CVG), not during the push back, thus fuel savings.
And after all these amazing fuel saving programs, Delta says Comair is STILL THE MOST EXPENSIVE REGIONAL THEY HAVE.
AND, here is the best part.....298 furloughed pilots and around 50 furloughed FA's! Comair's pilot numbers are down 700 since 2005! And guess what, it ain't over yet! More furloughs expected in Autumn!
So, what did we learn?
1. Saving fuel WILL NOT SAVE YOUR JOB
2. Not using the APU will **** off customers and your airline will lose income
3. Saving a few gallons of fuel by not using the APU will not save your airline.
COMAIR
1) Only DCI airline to run PPASS, a fuel savings system that was designed to save fuel by flying sloooooow. Ever wonder why you are flying a Dash 8 and catching up to a Comair CRJ? Some of the cruise altitude speeds are just amazing, .62 or .64 at 35K! There you are, flying a jet, high altitude, and doing 210 indicated! If you fly slow, you take longer to get where you're going, thus costing more to operate (crew pay, maintenance, etc.) so where the savings comes from is just smoke and mirrors (you show fuel savings, but cost more to operate, but HEY WE SAVED FUEL!) Or did we? If I fly at .78 and get there in 2 hours vs .62 and 2.5 hours of fuel burn, how much is actually saved?
2) Comair has an APU program and most of the CVG crews are big on this. They pull in, no ground A/C, on a 95 degree day, and shut down! If you were in the back of a plane with 69 other people in front of you before you could get out of this ever increasingly hot tin can, would you fly Delta again? If you had a meeting you're headed for, and you get off soaking with sweat, would you chose that airline again. Lost customers=lost income. And no, ground does not hook up external A/C at most OH stations.
3) Comair planes use single engine taxi, thus saving fuel
4) Comair engines are not started until after being pushed back (at CVG), not during the push back, thus fuel savings.
And after all these amazing fuel saving programs, Delta says Comair is STILL THE MOST EXPENSIVE REGIONAL THEY HAVE.
AND, here is the best part.....298 furloughed pilots and around 50 furloughed FA's! Comair's pilot numbers are down 700 since 2005! And guess what, it ain't over yet! More furloughs expected in Autumn!
So, what did we learn?
1. Saving fuel WILL NOT SAVE YOUR JOB
2. Not using the APU will **** off customers and your airline will lose income
3. Saving a few gallons of fuel by not using the APU will not save your airline.
Also, just to keep you in the loop, all the other DCI regionals are doing the other fuel savings techniques. Well... except for the flying slow thing. I flew at Skywest for over seven years and not once did we fly an empty jet with a flight attendant on board to cover a sick call.
I do agree with you.... this whole thread is ridiculous. If the cabin is uncomfortable, cool it down! Try to find ground air and if you can't, fiire the APU. We have to keep the pax comfortable, though. That's what they pay us for. I'm all for saving gas, but keeping customers happy is the best job security.
04-25-2009 | 09:56 PM
#39
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It's either comfortable, or not. No middle ground. Also, your grandmother does not determine comfort levels for the rest of the world. It is a no-brainer and it blows my mind when pilots are stingy with APU usage. The earth has been around for 5 billion years, through reoccurring ice ages, plate tectonics, meteorites, magnetic reversal of the poles, and killer meteorites, and you think the APU is going to do it in? Delusional.
RIP G.C.
RIP G.C.
Don't know if you've noticed but you will get a different definition of comfortable from as many people as you ask. My wife and I have disagreed about thermostat settings for years. She likes it colder and I like it hotter.
I have an idea. The next time you flying a trip at Compass, why don't you just tell the Captain that you are the decider of all things and from now on, you will be telling him/her when it shall be appropriate to run the APU.
BTW, what have you been doing about it up to now? silently fuming over APU using or spewing your all or nothing views?
04-25-2009 | 10:06 PM
#40
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From: DAL Pilot
Got to disagree with you here. If I'm flying with a guy who's an ass and making decisions based on his own personal vendetta against management I am not going to sit there with a grin on my face and stroke his ego. The attitude of "well you're the captain, it's your show" is really not constructive in a multi-crew environment. I only hope you were speaking specifically about instances like this where safety is not an issue. But Christ, if you disagree about something on the flight deck, speak up! It's not only your duty as a member of the crew but it could be your ass!
