I don't think that this is the attitude that we can go forth with if we want to make improvements to our pay/QOL. Asking for improvements in QOL and pay are not unique to the airline industry, but to all jobs.

I understand the point you are trying to make. I DO hold MYSELF RESPONSIBLE for what I got myself into when I was hired at my first airline. And Yes, I do have the option of Quitting. The only problem is, I doubt right now I could easily find a job with my degree (in the current state of unemployment etc..). However, holding myself responsible for my choice to become and airline pilot, and wanting better pay and working conditions CAN coexist.

I admit that I myself complain my fair share about how miserable working conditions and pay are for our profession. However, it takes actually being employed as a pilot for an airline for at least half a year before(maybe even sooner or later, i dunno, just a given amount of working experience) one realizes that it is a joke how hard we can be worked for the pay we receive. You never really have a complete picture of what kind of working conditions you are getting yourself into, until you have actually experienced them; and in the case of many airline pilots, that is only after you have invested many thousands of dollars to get to a regional carrier.

If we all the attitude that we should either be happy and accept what we have, or quit; well I would say the pilot shortage thing that they have been talking about would be more than noticeable.

With the attitude that your statement reflects, you are essentially saying you DO NOT WANT higher pay, that we should all be locked into the pay we agreed to when we were hired. Management would love this...no pilot pay increases EVER and we can still take away their pay during tough economic times, when they give into our demands.

The fact is, we are airline pilots, and I know I want to continue to be one for a long time coming, and I am in support of all other pilots in the attempts to increase pay/QOL/working conditions.

I Don't wand to quit!! I want to fight!! I hope there are others that want to fight too!!

 

I figured it out this is Roger Cohen president of RAA the same guy making the news rounds saying we make enough money get more than enough rest and we should shut the hell up and be glad we get to tell are friends "i am pilot". I don't just rant on APC after seeing Colnago(Roger Cohen) BBC interview I went to the RAA site to send him an email. I went back for more today and can't find any contact emails listed for the entire board of the RAA. this is getting interesting ladies and gentleman. Change is comming to the airways.

 

Agreed. This IS BS

 

The q400 at Vfe with full power and icing on the tail plane stalled at -15 degrees AOA. DFDR showed they were at -7 degrees AOA. Not even close to a tailplane stall.

 

They also (air florida) failed to ever achieve/set max thrust, which was much more of a contributing factor than almost anything else. And more so the captain told the FO to do it kind of like a "soft field" takeoff, which is also kind of one of those "golden rules of twin flying"

 

Very true, but a tailplane stall would not activate the shaker/pusher.... which is driven by wing angle of attack.... if your getting the shaker/pusher.... it's the big wing, not the upside down little one...

 

oh well with the pay thing cleared up for me there goes my shot of ever "gettin some"... in this line of work.... im quitting. FML

 

While it would be nice to think that Marvin was thinking Tailplane stall, just can't buy that theory. Remember the initial APC theory was un-recognized icing leading to a Tailplane stall with Marvin attempting a normal stall recovery.

What I think happened is that Marvin was overly concerned with maintaining altitude consistent with the emphasis he had received in sim training (100' loss was a bust on the event)

I think Rebecca changed the configuration out of the old truism that if you change the config and something bad happens, un-do it. Plane was flying fine until the Gear/Flap extension.....so, let's get back to the config where things were good.

I think it is likely that their X-checks were slow due to fatigue, that Marvin didn't power up after dropping the gear due to fatigue. Woulda coulda shoulda, at least one of them should have caught the aspd dropping into the hook. I don't think either of them realized how slow the plane had gotten and I don't think either of them were thinking stall. I think Marvin was reacting to an out of control plane thinking a wing had fallen off versus a damn let it get too slow, relax-power up-recover

 

I think you are right on here. This seems to be how they were reacting. Inattention caused this crash, and it is inexcusable, but it seems as this was how they were reacting.

 

Going back to what Cohen stated.. I have a few friends that fly in regionals in the USA.. one of them bids flights that keep him flying about 15 days out of the month (he's not reserves) and he's only a 2nd year F/O with Mesaba (he's on these forums too). The other one is a 3rd or 4th year F/O with SkyWest and I think he bids his flights to put him near 80-90 hours a month, but that's still plenty of rest. I know sometimes that flight crews are rushed between flights, but it's not always that bad, and it's not every airline either. It just seems to be the poor-quality-managed airlines are like this.

But I also feel Cohen is wrong, he said that salary has no effect on pilot safety, when I feel it does. If pilots made more, they wouldn't need a 2nd job, and people (even pilots) who make just a few bucks to get by, generally have money and other financial obligations rolling through their mind, especially in the empty void of flying at FL360 for 2 hours... instead of focusing on flying.