I'm sorry, can't we just call a spade a spade
05-15-2009, 02:06 PM
#21
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Originally Posted by Jeffdh17
The media is in a bit of a frenzy over rest and pay issues.
05-15-2009, 02:12 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by Check Essential
If you want to call a spade a spade let's mention the issue that is politically unmentionable.
Was his performance/attitude/apparent propensity for excess conversation affected by the fact that he was paired with a young attractive female? Was her youth and gender a distraction?
Did he feel pressure to be extra "macho"? Especially after her comments regarding her lack of experience with icing and that she probably would "freak out", etc. etc.
We've all discussed complacency. Was he in fact trying to be complacent or at least appear "nonchalant"?
Was his performance/attitude/apparent propensity for excess conversation affected by the fact that he was paired with a young attractive female? Was her youth and gender a distraction?
Did he feel pressure to be extra "macho"? Especially after her comments regarding her lack of experience with icing and that she probably would "freak out", etc. etc.
We've all discussed complacency. Was he in fact trying to be complacent or at least appear "nonchalant"?
I think the answer here is yes. From reading the transcript it seems to me that he was trying to act macho and nonchalant. Good point that I was teetering about mentioning.
05-15-2009, 02:14 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Originally Posted by Rama
The problem was not that they were talking-it was that they weren't paying attention to the airplane.
05-15-2009, 02:29 PM
#24
Reserve for Life
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Right Seat for life
Posts: 221
I am all for calling a Spade a Spade.. May the Crew R.I.P, But reading thru the CVR it seems to me as if these two pilots were almost like two DH going to BUF. I would like to the animation of the FDR, what happened when F.O retracted the flaps up. Instead on concentrating on the flaps and wanting to raise the gear she should also have realized that CA's recovery technic was the wrong one, with the shaker going off and at least said something either to push forward. 6.7 seconds went by when the Shaker came on until the autopilot was disconnected. The Plane was flying it's self and they were along for the ride. 6.7 sec in Basketball is plenty of time on the clock. Even if your behind is in a jam, if only they had reacted in the right manner out come might have been different. They might of crashed but it would have been more controlled then falling out of the sky. Not paying attention bit them hard and now they have eternity to reflect on it.
05-15-2009, 03:00 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Facing forward, punching buttons
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by seafeye
We all know they made mistakes. The question is: Why did they make the mistakes? And how can they be prevented in the future? And of course all the lawyers want to know is who can be held responsible? And did the airline industry aid the crash with our working conditions? The million dollar question is would 50 people be alive today if colgan paid more to hire better qualified people? I understand your spade is a spade but Management's greed is partly responsible. IMO
We can all come up with all the excuses in the world for this tragedy, but we also have to look at ourselves. If we can't shut off the other stuff and concentrate on FLYING THE PLANE, we need to keep our butts on the ground.
There is no excuse for extemporaneous yakking below 10,000. And there is no excuse...none at all...for not watching the airspeed.
That's what killed them. And that has nothing to do with the crap in the industry. That's first lesson private pilot stuff. Period.
Being a professional is not about being a good guy, even though you should. It's about following the rules.
05-15-2009, 04:52 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: ERJ CAPT
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by 250 or point 65
Ok, I'll buy that. But if that's true, the crew should not have put themselves in that situation. There are plenty of responsible commuters out there that show up to flights rested and ready.
Also, there is no way that in this more stressful than usual situation that they were barely awake. The human body will not allow you to fall asleep in that situation. Am I the only one who is able to be highly focused in the soup, ice, etc? This was not a day VFR flight that you've done a million times.
Also, there is no way that in this more stressful than usual situation that they were barely awake. The human body will not allow you to fall asleep in that situation. Am I the only one who is able to be highly focused in the soup, ice, etc? This was not a day VFR flight that you've done a million times.
One Question...
Where are you based, and what brand do you work under?
05-15-2009, 05:11 PM
#29
No one's home
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by rjboy
It is simple. Better pay attracts better people. Better people make better pilots. Better pilots make flying safer. The reason we are dealing with this issue is sad but if we deal with it now we can save our profession and lives in the future. There are pilots flying with us now who should not be. We need to help them get better. We need to stand up for the safety of our passengers and demand to be compensated well enough to attract the best pilots in the future.
05-15-2009, 05:13 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 420
This thread is too painful, to not comment anymore . . .
Please, continue to improve your own flying skills before ad nausium lambasting fellow aviators with all the Monday-morning-quarterback comments. I am sure you have plenty of days off to shine your own certificates enough so that you can see your own reflection in them.
As for the macho "had a pretty female FO and could not concentrate" comments . . . please act like a professional aviator you strive to be and not a prepubesent teenager who has never talked to a female before. (If this last sentence is true, my apologies, it is Friday night . . . go out and meet some!)
As for me, I am logging off, I am on reserve call at 4am. Good night.
Please, continue to improve your own flying skills before ad nausium lambasting fellow aviators with all the Monday-morning-quarterback comments. I am sure you have plenty of days off to shine your own certificates enough so that you can see your own reflection in them.
As for the macho "had a pretty female FO and could not concentrate" comments . . . please act like a professional aviator you strive to be and not a prepubesent teenager who has never talked to a female before. (If this last sentence is true, my apologies, it is Friday night . . . go out and meet some!)
As for me, I am logging off, I am on reserve call at 4am. Good night.
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