spank

Why'd we all take the job then? I hate playing devil's advocate gang, but the bottom line will remain the same. After reading a few poorly written articles that created a number of comments from the general public on a number of big media sites, one thing still remains. Joe Shmo and his family still want the cheapest ticket.

We (regional airlines) were created to decrease the cost of flying to the public and make the market more competitive. (Because of the unions great idea of SCOPE) Lots of people have great ideas right now, and it's nice seeing everyone think outside of the box. That still doesn't change the fact of the matter. No matter how many pilots want more pay, management and the union know there's hundreds of other guys that are willing to do the same job for less. That's a pill we all have to swallow for now.

Will there be change in the future? Sure, when the market's starving for pilots again? Who knows, but lets not get too crazy about this. CNN showcased APC the other day, and there's no doubt the general public is probing our forums to read what we talk (complain) about.

Baby steps everyone, baby steps. It starts with regaining the public's respect. Wear your uniform properly, don't turn the PA into a half rate comedic act, and come into work with atleast an ounce of pride about what you do. We're not mainline captains and fo's for plenty of reasons. Whatever those are it doesn't matter, we're stuck at the "bottom feeders" for a while with little movement is in sight. Time to get back to basics, this used to be service industry. Many lost sight of that years, even decades ago. We're here to SERVE the public, the better we do that the more respect we'll earn. In turn, instead of wanting to fly in a "real plane" folks might be looking forward to fly around in a "crop duster".

Just a little food for thought. There's a lot we don't have control over in our jobs. We are the frontline, not the union, not management. US. Rant over.

BringDaFunk

All it would take is:

• Pilots with the will and time to get it done.

Why it would not work:

• Negative attitude from pilots who think things could never change
• Pilots who believe this is how regionals work, and it will have to stay this way

Why it would seem unrealistic:

• Most pilots cant afford time away from work.

Would it be possible, with some work:

• It sure would.

PAN PAN PAN

Very good point there Spank.

I don't think there should be a Regional Union, I think ALPA should become more aware of the particular and specific problems that pertain to and need to be addressed on the Regional level of the Union.

Just my two cents.

Seggy

Having a regional only union is a BAD idea. We need the resources from ALPA National when crap hits the fan like it did in Buffalo. In my mind here are the two major things we need...

Open communication and a great working relationship between the Regional MEC and their respective Legacy MEC.

More volunteerism from regional pilots within their union.

Jessemh

Actually you just quoted the pay scale difference between compass and air canada. SAME EXACT AIRPLANE SAME EXACT SEATING CONFIG

Mason32

That can/is/was accomplished by using smaller more fuel efficient "regional" equipment.... somewhere along the line they realized there was a virtual nver ending supply of folks with SJS and they started cutting pay and benefits as well to further maximize profits....

As much as you like to blame people for accepting these low paying jobs, I'd like to point out that it isn't just the accepting of a low paying job, it's also lousy research into what company they even want to work for. So many of these kids just want to get into an airplane.... any airplane, that they do not care who they work for. I'm sorry, but if every single commercial pilot refused to wear colors that didn't matche their paycheck, then the actual companies (paycheck matches the name on the airplane - the big name, not the small one near the door) would be forced to grow....

All regional airline jobs are NOT the same.... flying a CRJ at XYZ company is not the same as flying it ABC. Some companies perform proper maintenance, replace time limited parts, comply with AD's, conduct their own training and accept responsibility for their product rather than farm training our to a subcontract, along with the liability... When you jumpseat on some of these regional carriers and see MULTIPLE MEL stickers all over the cockpit.... you HAVE to know something is wrong there.

The FAA is filled with former ATA lobbyists, and ATA executive positions are filled with former FAA executives.... FAA SAfety Inspectors almost always come from the airlines themselves.... the cross pollenation is ridiculous... the fox is watching the hen house, and has been for years. The effects are just now starting to be seen and felt.

ATCsaidDoWhat

ALPA's big boys didn't want "commuters" 35 years ago and don't want regionals now, except for the dues money we bring. Nothing's changed. They could have dug their heels in long ago to get us better wages and work rules but the big boys didn't want them to. Just like flow through agreements and "One Level of Safety."

If they cared so much, where was Prater last week? How come we saw that guy Rice doing all the talking? He's a nice guy, but you'd think on something that means so much to so many of his constitiuents he'd be right in front of the cameras.

BlaineFaban

What you are confusing is the career overexpectation of regional pilot with the reasonable expectation. It isn't going to happen. Your expectations out of this accident, aka increased costs, will simply make your contracts with legacy carriers untenable, and promote the subsequent shift of flying back to the majors. This in turn will cause you to attempt blame shift once again to your union--since it can't possibly be your fault.

spank

A number of good points Mason. I whole heartedly agree that all regionals are not created equal. I am fortunate enough to be at one that seems to be among the more stable at the moment. If I imposed the wrong impression that I "blame others" for taking these low paying jobs I was misunderstood. I blame all of us, myself included. That raises the question where else is there to go? I also agree the endless flow of low time pilots looking for a start in the industry will not end anytime soon. I do think it is naive to think that every regional pilot will refuse to accept a paycheck that is any less than our mainline counterparts. Pay is an issue; is it too low? Yes. Are we doing flying that once belonged to mainline? Yes. Do we deserve mainline pay for the flying we do? Absolutely.

Nevertheless, the reason for our being is that we are cheaper SEPERATE entities, even if we are wholy owned. I am not looking to be negative or connotative, just conversive. It is always interesting to read the thoughts of others. I wish I was the eternal optimist that thought mainline pay (or near) was possible at the regional level. Only time will tell, but the last 20 years in the industry have seen nothing but a decline in both pay and benefits. I'll keep dreaming, but I'm afraid that's all I'll do.

PCL_128

I've got news for you: regionals don't bring in money to ALPA, they cost ALPA money. Pretty much every regional, with the possible exceptions of XJT, EGL, and ASA, actually cost ALPA more than they bring in. The previous exceptions might be break-even. None produce a revenue surplus. They just don't have enough pilots and don't have high enough average earnings. Even AirTran is barely more than break-even for ALPA. We need to get about 2,000+ pilots before we'll really start helping ALPA's bottom line.

So NO, ALPA doesn't want you for the money. ALPA wants to represent regional pilots because it's better for the overall profession for all pilots to be represented by one union rather than a bunch of disparate unions all with their own voices. That will get us nowhere.

Most likely having meetings with high-level government officials to protect your interests. The average day for Captain Prater is about 18 hours long and filled with lobbying on your behalf. Many days at 11pm he's still in his office in downtown DC doing work for you and your fellow pilots. He doesn't always have the time to give a 30 minutes to CNN of which only 10 seconds will make it on air.

Captain Rice is basically the number 2 guy in ALPA. I was very surprised that even he gave the time to CNN to go on camera, as he's usually busy doing work for IFALPA and representing our interests on the international front. Be glad that he took the time for it.