heading180

When I first earned my private in 1996 the typical route to the airlines was something like... be a CFI while you try to find something, anything multi or multi-turbine to fly, even for free, to build time to get to a regional. From there you flew a Saab or EMB for a regional and didn't get paid dick. BUT.... that's okay. Upgrade was pretty short, and for the most part, most of the guys I started with in 1996 are now with Southwest, Jetblue, or one of the fractionals making 40k-60k as FO's. In another 5-10 they will probably be 80-100K captains.

Like anything, you gotta start at the bottom. NOW.. .the problem lies not with the pay but with the no upgrade in sight problem. Most people I know flying for SW etc... also started at 18K, be it with a regional or flying a barron single pilot IFR in Michigan. However, within a few years they were able to overcome it and move on. The problem today is, I don't mind making 25K a year as a 2-3 year FO at a regional but as it stands now, the regionals are not as much as a "stepping stone" as they used to be. Why?? Because there is no choice. I don't believe the regional airlines were intended to be career airlines.

As furloughed OH, I think I have to get out. I think it's time to find something else. Even if they recalled, My kids will be ready for college about the time I would be eligable for upgrade and... I just can't provide for them at that point in their lives on 30K fo pay.

I guess what I am trying to say is....the regional pay scales are okay I guess if the system worked like it was supposed to. 2-3 years FO, 2-5 as captain followed by being picked up by a major or fractional. It's just not that way anymore.

bryris

All good points.

Go find a real career and fly for fun.

HercDriver130

Even that is tough right now.

HSLD

And that's the issue - a "regional" pilot is no longer paying dues for a few years with the realistic expectation to progress to a "major". Instead, because of [bankruptcy induced] scope relaxation at the majors regional flying is expanding and mainline flying is shrinking. You don't have to be an economist to figure out what that does to manpower needs. Regional" flying has suddenly becomes a career prospect.

In the last 20 years "Regional flying" has gone from true regional routes flying turboprop equipment under part 135, to narrowbody jets flying near-transcon segments under part 121. Major airlines are effectively outsourcing narrow body flying and again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the career progression for labor.

On the other end of the spectrum, American, United, and Continental are actively lobbying for Anti Trust Immunity. ATI, if passed will outsource US airline jobs that currently operate International routes to overseas workers. This is a big deal that's getting very little press from any of the national unions. If you haven't done so already - read this thread and TAKE ACTION it only takes a few minutes. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ght-scope.html

Pilot compensation should be suitable to support a family with work rules that allow a decent quality of life. Are we there? And what are you willing to do about it?

N118NW

It's hard to do it with a family. If you're single, it's easy to find another carrier, you simply just have to look outside your home country.

With a family, it's one of the most difficult things to do these years.. unless of course you inherit sufficient funds to support your family.

heading180

Thank-You.

Lighteningspeed

Excellent point. Leading up to this point making the situation ripe for this is that, in the last 15 to 20 years, due to our very lax immigration policy and the sprouting of countless flight schools catering to foreign students, we've had an influx of foreign pilots, mostly from Europe, but also from South America who wind up staying here in the US, taking US pilot jobs from US citizens. For example, I've met numerous British pilots who came over here to learn to fly because it is so much cheaper to fly here then in their own country and then they get a job with a US airlines like NWA, Airtran, DAL and others.

Yes, pilot compensation at the regional level in the US is not adequate to support a family.

SkyHigh

I have been saying this stuff for years. It is difficult to impossible to make it in this industry with a family in tow and be able to preserve some kind of QOL. Even if you upgrade the prospects of making the jump to the majors is becoming a long shot.

When I reached the end of my trail I had to choose what was best for my wife and children and I am glad that I did, however it is a tragedy to have so much invested in a profession that has become a dead end for many.

I don't know if anti-trust legislation will make things better. If wages were able to increase then everyone will have their hands out. Pilots, Flight attendants, rampers, cleaners, mechanics, office people, aircraft leasing companies will all want a pay raise. If that happens then you know that ticket prices will jump up. Demand will decrease and the airlines will once again begin to shrink. A good deal for those who already have a job at the majors. Not so good for the next generation of pilots.

My highest hopes lie in the death of GA. As the cost of training continues to increase the flood of pilots might begin to taper off a bit.

Skyhigh

Conquistador

How has foreign pilots effected the issue? In the early 90’s I was told by a Mexican Corporate pilot I knew that a small regional airline in Michoacán Mexico needed pilots and since I wanted to travel Mexico, he suggested that I work for them and live down there for awhile. I traveled to Michoacán and inquired about the possibilities of working for them and they informed me I needed to be born in Mexico to be employed as a pilot for an airline in Mexico. In the mid 90’s in California, I wanted to get my CFI and do some instructing at the local airport by my house. At the time they had mainly foreigners there and most of them were from the UK. Most of the other airports in the area were primarily instructing Japanese students so this seemed like the best option. I was trying to get some signal that they would be willing to hire me once I got my CFI and but I found out from one of the instructors that they had some sort of contract to instruct and employ and certain amount of students per year and that they were behind, so my employment would be likely right away. I was also told they were to get the hours needed and return to the UK, but almost all of the ones I knew married American women, got Work permits once the student visas expired, and eventually entered the Regional’s. However, on the other hand I’ve been told there’s not too many foreigners employed by the regionals. If there was a influx of foreigners into the regional market, that would keep the wages down. But if foreigners have entered the market, is there just too many pilots for the jobs out there?
What is the actual catalyst to the supply and demand problem? I wish I could have worked in Mexico, but I also, wonder if most countries are like that.

HSLD

The ATI will allow airlines to have owned route authority flown by foreign carriers. If labor is too expensive at American Airlines than BA will fly the AA routes. If AA and BA labor is deemed too expensive than just admit the Bulgarian national airline into the One World alliance and let them fly it.

The ATI has the ability to whipsaw airline labor on a global scale. Should the ATI legislation pass, it won't be a good deal for any US airline employee.

As it relates to regional flying, the ATI will further reduce any opportunity at the "majors" for traditional career progression.