"In my experience..."

Then again, some 2LT's hit the sandbox a few months after getting commissioned. Not everybody gets pretty blue uniforms to go to Jet Camp. I believe Blkflyer (love the avatar btw) was trying to put things in perspective. There is more to the military than Jet Camp and Uncle Sam's Armed Flying club.

 

Hi!

Mil and the regionals are two different things. Their pay is not comparable. Oh, and when I started as a 2Lt I got paid about $15K/YEAR! (sorry).

It is also why a new guy at 3M or Gulfstream (SAV) should not get the same pay as a new flight instructor in a C-172 at Joe's Flying Service.

cliff
NBO

 

$15,000/mo? What service what you in?

 

Yeah, that's the only difference. Oh wait, what's up with that 10-yr commitment after UPT? How about we see how well a 10-yr training contract will go over with regional pilots? Then there is that no say in where you live, little say in what aircraft you fly, little say in whether you even fly an aircraft (UAV, staff, etc) - just like those regional seniority based systems. Also, others have mentioned the going to war thing - forgot about that. As long as we are at it, ask all of those fighter wingmen how many of them have 13 or more days off per month.

Are you sure you were in the USAF? I can't tell from how you framed your post - either you never were or you served in the '50's. (jetcamp?, butter bar?). If you were from the old school, UPT was nowhere near jetcamp unless the average camp has a 30% or more washout rate.

I'll have to say the introduction of military pilots into the regional discussion was a sign that the poster had nothing useful to lend to the discussion.

Edited: Gator, I found one of your previous posts that had this quote: "Yes sure I looked into Active duty....but I never desired to be in South Korea as a 10 year indentured servant. Especially if there was a better option."

Really, as an ANG person who was afraid to commit 10-yrs of your life away, you are going to attempt to comment on how "cake" and AD 2LT's life is? Priceless!

 

Historically, the armed forces have not paid as well as a comparable civilian position. (I do not mean combat arms per se, but a young college graduate entering the work force.) The financial rewards of service have always been sorely lacking. There has never been any argument that a junior ad exec or accountant is 'worth more' than some shave tail Lieutenant. But they certainly will bring home more bacon.

The idea that a civilian of roughly equal training should make less than their peers in uniform is absurd! Ten year commitments, hardship deployments, combat; these are not arguments to support higher pay - they are the conditions of service to the nation.

If you are making less to start than a 2nd louie, there is something seriously, grotesquely wrong with your situation.

 

Forgive my ignorance but when you're in the service don't they usually pay for room and board? I have a few friends who are officers in the USAF and I think they get a hefty stipend for housing.

If my company paid for my house I'd be making bank even if they paid me half what I currently make!

 

Really, well how about this: Isn't crappy pay and crappy schedules a condition of service to the regional airline? Regional pilots are sacrificing in order to build hours towards a further career, with that in mind how about they pay for their own training and suffer those long hours and low pay as a service to the company that is giving them the opportunity to move on to bigger and better things? As a further sign of their gratitude, how about they sign agreements that they will serve minimum term lengths? We can call them conditions of service to the employer.

Let's refresh - some regional people think that their pay should be indexed off of 2LT pay? Since you mention "roughly equal training", would you care to elaborate? USAF pilots are paid as officers (not pilots), they got officer training, they have officer responsibilities, they get officer pay - officer pilots get a small flight pay increment in addition to their officer pay. Those hardships that you call service, that is why the pay is what it is. The military set's pay to whatever it takes to get the most qualified candidates to agree to endure those hardships in exchange for that pay (just as regional airlines set their pay to that which is required to get the candidates they are willing to live with). There are many who think that the salary of a 2LT is not worth the enduring of those hardships, including the majority of those who are reading this very discussion - otherwise they would have raised their right hand.

When you can't think of a reason why your conditions should be improved on its own merits, you try to tie your pay to a completely different industry. I tell you what, I had 6 years of college (M.S.) and had 13 years of experience (training) before I went to work with my current employer - maybe I should index my pay to that of a surgeon? After all, we have similar durations of education and training.

For those who continue to compare their pay to those of other industries, you can always quit and switch to that industry. Unlike the military, you have the freedom to come and go as you wish. If you don't like your work conditions and you can't formulate the argument of why you should be compensated better or have better work rules - leave. If you want to articulate why you should be paid commensurate to your responsibilities, fine, you'll have a productive discussion. If you want to say that you should be paid what X or Y gets paid, then I'll have a simple answer - go be X or Y.

iPilot: It's called salary. Due to the nature of the gov't system, the pay of anyone in the military is comprised of base pay plus allowances. There is no overtime, there are no bonuses (except for ACIP and other pays that we incorrectly call bonuses - they are really re-signing payments), etc. Housing pay is a way for the gov't to modify one's pay based on rank and dependent status. In reality, it would be no different if your company reduced your base pay, and they added some portion back and called that portion "housing pay", and another "subsistence pay", etc. It would be like someone saying "if I got per diem like you do, I'd be able to eat for free."