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RAH 190's Base and Pay Memo

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RAH 190's Base and Pay Memo

Old 06-23-2009, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
Yes, it is...
I've read your arguments in the other threads and not sure if I agree or disagree that this might be "good" for Frontier and Midwest pilots. Leaning towards not "good". You can argue ALL day long about having a job flying a plane is better than collecting unemployment, and I guess that's true. And we can also do that whole tough talk of "if you don't like it just quit" B.S. also. Which is what it will probably come down to for a lot of guys. But if we do that, we have to include the standard argument that ensues. There will always be somebody lined up to fly that airplane for whatever wages (more than likely substandard/pathetic) come out of this whole deal.

When this thing does go down, and with RAH in contract talks, I don't see it going well.

It might end up JUST LIKE LAST TIME.

BB is going to have the RAH MEC/NC so wrapped up in scope protection and integration issues that they will have to give somewhere, and it's probably going to be on hourly compensation.

Sure, RAH MIGHT secure higher wages relative to what they are now, but what will they be when all is said and done for all the fleet types under the holdings group? Don't think it's going to be earth shattering. Not knocking the RAH guys, but I think BB is going to stick it to them this way, AGAIN.

Last edited by dojetdriver; 06-24-2009 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 View Post
I'll answer this. At the time, every single pilot on property knew they would be a captain within two years. They took care of themselves at the expense of their future new hires and the entire industry.
Dead wrong. 100 percent absolutely wrong. I was on property then, and I know you were not. Listen up, people. If you're gonna sling crap, you gotta get your facts right.

The E170 was not certified, and WH and BB were telling new-hires they wanted to focus on E145 operations and not grow beyond their means. BB even turned down a request from America West to fly in Phoenix when AW closed the CMH hub, saying he didn't have the resources to support a quality operation that far west. (Hard to imagine now...)

Pre 2003 first year pay was 19.75, second year 23, and third year 28. The new contract brought first year pay to 21 per hour, second to 29, and thereon. The thinking behind the 4-year topout for FO rates was that the contract was amenable after 4 years, and FO rates could be re-addressed.

There was NO WAY we were thinking everyone would be a CA in two years. We were told as new-hires to expect a 5-year upgrade, and believed it. The junior CA on property in 2003 was a 1999 hire. The only reason upgrades dropped so low was a combination of the 9/11 hiring freeze and the subsequent growth in the E-Jet fleet.

CHQ had a fleet of 83 E145 series airframes on property and the count peaked at 103 in 2006 before the drawdown in the 145 fleet and the withdrawal of the 135s. Those numbers might have been enough to make me a junior reserve CA; would you have even gone to RAH absent the rapid growth?

So again, when you go to bash your former RAH brethren at least get your facts straight. Had RAH not become a major E-Jet player there would have been neither growth nor attrition enough for you to get your quick PIC and get your shot at NWA. Again, NO ONE on property either expected to be a 2-year captain or was one when the last CBA was signed.
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Old 06-28-2009, 09:55 AM
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I'm editing what I originally wrote for fear of more hate be directing at a great pilot group. I don't know what planet you were on in 2003, but just about everything you said is "100 percent absolutely wrong."

Last edited by smitty145; 06-28-2009 at 11:03 AM.
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