Also, how many first years are flying the Airbus at Delta??? Pay rates are lower for 3 of the other airplanes. Doesn't make it right, but make sure the comparisons are accurate.

 

Well I am glad to see you talk the talk and walk the walk.
If some day you want to come back wouldn't it be nice to get paid for your experience and not your seniority number. Unions should be for safety, seniority for schedule and experience for pay.

I got furloughed from a fractional built my time hauling freight so i am an outsider looking into the airline world. Good luck with school.

 

My post was probably too short. I was referring to those who willfully settle for low wages as opposed to those who view a particular job as a stepping stone.

 

"Why does a furloughed major airline pilot have to start over at the bottom of the hill in regards to pay"

This is only true if that pilot gives up a seniority number at the airline he/she is furloughed from.

 

Were not in the situation were in because we like the work we do. If that was true, more interesting jobs would pay less. Thats not how the world works.

The reason why we seem to be moving backwards when everyone else is moving forward is the fact that we are covered under a peice of legislation unique to the airlines and railways which severely restricts our negotiating powers. That is why airline management can push us around like they do. If we carried a big gun in our belt (read: ability to strike) we wouldn't be pushed around. Wouldn't it be wonderfull if you could "set the brake" the next time your airline furloughs out of seniority, stalls you contract negotiations or worse?

Airline Pilots continue to work under deteriorating conditions because they don’t have a choice. Their hands are tied under the Railway Labor Act. In practical terms, airline pilots cannot strike airline management is well aware of that. Therefore, in times of economic growth, it is in the best interest of the airline negotiators to stall and maintain status quo. It is near impossible to improve the overall conditions of the pilot groups because of the RLA. Major changes happen when people die in plane crashes but not when pilots forewarn about unacceptable conditions. Compared to other economically unregulated industries that are covered by the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), the employees of the airline industry have very little leverage. The RLA prevents employees from engaging in self help, carries no provisions for unfair labor practices, and contracts have no set expiration dates. These three major differences cause unionized airline employees to be at an unfair disadvantage when compared to the rest of the population. In addition, the “fly now grieve later” rule allows the schedulers to force pilots to complete tasks that may be against their contract.

The effects of the RLA became particularly obvious after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 where pilot groups accepted supposedly temporary pay cuts to keep their companies in business. In the subsequent years, airlines became profitable, however, the pilot groups did not have enough leverage to regain any lost territory in a timely fashion. Before any progress was made, the economic cycle had turned around and threats of furloughs and additional outsourcing to cheaper subcontractors deterred further progress in negotiation.

The restricting elements of the RLA, preventing pilot groups from engaging in self-help need to be amended to reflect those of the NRLA. An even better solution would be to free the airline employees from the RLA altogether and treat the airline industry as the deregulated industry it is and place it under the laws of the NRLA. If the government sees a need to use aviation as a public utility, it should be completely regulated and subsidized as such. Otherwise, aviation should be treated as an industry in its own right and unionized airline employees should have the same self-help rights as the majority of the population. Release the airline employees from the Railway Labor Act.

 

The RLA is designed to prevent interruptions in service. Those in power have decided that the railway system and airlines serve such a vital role in the nation's transportation system - upon which so many businesses rely - that a strike is to be pushed off as long as possible by delaying through mediation, mandatory cooling periods, etc. That is its purpose.

If you back away from the "pilot think" and look at it from the government's viewpoint, the motive for the act is sound. It is sort of the same reason that railroad companies are prevented from filing for liquidation bankruptcy. We can't really afford for them to go out of business. Someone has to haul the #$!@ around.

Accordingly, the RLA (or some amended variant) isn't going anywhere.

 

Suppose a furloughed pilot could "bump in" at another carrier. Wouldn't that stagnate or even displace the junior guys who were already there? What if he wasn't furloughed, but just decided to make a lateral move to a better job? If he came in at the bottom for seniority purposes but kept his old pay rate, wouldn't that be a "reverse B-scale", with senior pilots making less than juniors in the same seat?

Like "age 65", the NSL would probably be accepted if it were in place when everyone started flying -- it's the transition in mid-career that will cause problems.

 

I don't think it would displace anyone because the positions would be filled as needed. If a slot was opened, someone would be hired into it. If no slots were open, no one would be hired to cause others to be pushed out.

The problem is how to schedule. Unlike most jobs where everyone works set hours, the airline world deals with par and sub par schedules and all must be divided in some equitable way. After all, someone has to sit reserve. Seniority is logical in this sense, but is there another way? Food for thought anyways.

 

All of us here love flying. Flying however does not love us.

Pilots have to accept that a large portion of their compensation comes in the form of job satisfaction. Aviation is becoming less of a job and more of a religion. You make sacrifices over the next guy to stay in the saddle.

Every ten years the industry will constrict and squeeze out another 10 to 20% of the pilots work force. Each time some will choose not to return and new ones will jump in to take their place. Every new cycle will bring more bankruptcies and lower pilot wages. It is a constant grind to find the bottom.

The hard reality is that if you want to be a pilot then you have to endure crushing wages, frequent job changes and a dimming future.

Skyhigh

 

None! There are no first year pilots at DL - the last class was May 08. The junior 320 FO was hired in January 08 - so there ARE year and a half FO's flying the bus.