crazyjaydawg

The CA had failed multiple checkrides. To me it sounds like the FAA has said he isn't ready. He lied to his company otherwise I bet Colgan would have looked at his app and said he wasn't ready. I think there needs to be some accountability here.

Also if he can pencil whip an application, what can you do with a logbook?

bcrosier

Careful there - you're going to have MENSA wannabe's like III Corps all over you with statements like that. He assures me that pay has no bearing on the kind of people you are able to attract. According to him, we were all lied to N Economics 101.

Personally I'm not sure what planet he's from, but I agree with you - in the long run, you get what you pay for. I have a number of friends who (after the failure of their previous employer) have left aviation because they cannot find a job which pays enough to be worthwhile (and don't want to go overseas). I'm not talking about guys recently out of school, these are pilots with 20+ years widebody, international experience. They would still like to be flying, but they won't do it for crap wages (something the SJS kids could learn from).

kalyx522

why does everyone keep on blaming the capt for allegedly lying about failed checkrides? if he indeed did so that was wrong, but no one brings up the fact that it's the airline's responsibility as well to check a pilot's background and history. colgan totally threw him under the bus about this because he's not here to defend himself, and made it seem like it was all his fault when they should have checked that information themselves.
even if they did know about his student checkride failures, i doubt that it would've made a difference in hiring him or not. they were pretty darn desperate and had looow standards in those days. (as did numerous other regionals.)

bryris

I just don't understand the wages argument from a macro viewpoint. If you don't like the wages, leave the industry. There are millions of ways to make money. If one MUST grip onto aviation as their only source of income, come hell or high water, then they must be doing it for another reason besides pay.

TheDashRocks

For the prestige and the perks!

-Long relaxing sits in comfy lounges 4 stories underground with moisture oozing from the walls.

-Express line through TSA.

-The instant respect commanded by my snappy uniform.

-Proficiency gained from taking off and landing 8x a day.

-The excitement of having the workday or workweek extended at the last minute.

squawkoff

I don't think you can do a check ride that last about an hour and get a good picture of the skills and judgment of a pilot, or in my last career, a controller no matter how much experience they claim. I was an instructor of controllers for 20 of my 25 years in ATC and argued that a check ride for controllers should be a two or three day process. Maybe the controller/pilot had a good day or a good hour during the check ride but what happens when the doo-doo hits the fan? I hope that's what IOE is for. How many crew members that you know has failed IOE? I would say it is very rare but I think IOE for flight crew members is the last layer of safety to keep those out of the left seat that aren't ready. I think everyone has flown with the "how have you stayed alive" crew member. Thoughts, Experiences??????

eaglefly

3 day checkrides for pilots ?

It could be many of the check pilots themselves aren't so hot. On one hand, everyone seems to be running around in a state of fear and has forgotten just how safe this industry has become. But that being said, these latest events ARE a byproduct of the need for minimum cost and minimum experience by the entities that should be holding a higher standard for entry. The 60's -80's had plenty of accidents attributable to pilot error and these were experienced pilots. Now, the cheapest buck spent rules, and you've got 26 year old 3000 hour airline jet captains out there and 500 hour co-pilots with wet MEL tickets, where it used to take 2000TT/500MEL to get an interview. An RJ is no different operational wise than a 727 and years back how many 727's had 3000 hour 26 year old captains and 22 year old 500 hour co-pilots ?

One would expect a problem with this level of experience and maturity in command of these aircraft in such increasing levels. The FAA has fumbled this ball just as they fumbled the controller replacement ball, all in the name of the almighty buck.

The REAL problem has 3 simple letters.......F-A-A.

Maybe we should follow their desie and just install cameras in the cockpit and download the FDR/CVR after a flight and quanify pilots mistakes and if too many fire them. Same for controllers - cameras and tape recorders at their work stations and if too many errors, then terminate. After all, what better way to deflect the problems cause away from its true source.

You know, there's got to be a way of making this a flawless world where imperfect humans become perfect. Maybe it's time we just handed everything over to machines and admit we're a hopeless species.

HAL (9000), what's you opinion ?

Dougdrvr

"Open the pod bay door, HAL"


Great post, BTW

squawkoff

I wasn't implying that for pilots. I was using my past career as an example. I was trying to point out that just because someone has an ATP does not mean they are ready for the left seat. I feel there should be a broader examination of their skills and judgment. I was wondering if IOE would take care of that. Have any of you known anyone who failed IOE?

eaglefly

Oh absolutely.

We've had pilots that required upwards of 60+ hours of IOE and some STILL were let go. That kind of IOE effort says something about the system and glaringly highlights a rotted foundation and that's what happens when the pool of pilots is so small because the treatment and compensation is so poor, that you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel and THEN try to make a vinyl purse (forget silk) out of a sows outflow valve.

This country has no governmental agency that holds airlines accountable (let alone it's self) and not only demands an acceptable system, but ENFORCES it. They have something called the FAA, but THEY are the foundation of the PROBLEM and not the cure.

They believe that the spotlight must be shined everywhere BUT on them and that's what half of their band-aid deflective proposals are.