Not directed at anyone here:It's the fact that this is being handled in a "legislative process" at all that bothers me. This is a step right back to re-regulation. 51 people die and congress rewrites our industry. What happened when the four year old was mowed down out side the fence at midway. Oh, that was a mainline carrier, they are professionals. BS!

November, 2001. A300 out of Kennedy, I don't remember anything about retraining military pilots not to use full rudder control, many more voters died in that crash. Oh, that was a mainline carrier, they are professionals.

What they have failed to do, and I am sure there is some lobbyist behind this, is to put it on the company to supply the ATP on the next training event. Assuming you are already at a 121 carrier. What I am reading, this will have the company telling me I now have to go out and get an atp in a aircraft I don't or haven't flown in years and foot the bill myself, watch the rates jump with that announcement.

I'll also say this, there needs to be some captain mentoring going on as well. I have been in the cockpit with some real tools who make me cringe at the thought of a family member or friend riding in the back of their aircraft. Oh wait, the captain was flying the buffalo accident.

 

This has been a long time coming. Unfort it has been defeated numerous times by the ATA and airlines. they always cry its gonna cost to much money to revamp certain rules. Since the previous FAA admins were a bunch of sniffling idiots they always backed down. Maybe the new admin will actually get the rules changed that have needed to be changed for about 30 yrs. I don't see this as a knee jerk reaction but now the catalyst has finally happened to make some changes. I am sure you are familiar with the saying- Nothing gets done until someone is killed.

As far as regulation goes, we are one of the most regulated business out there if not the most. Regulated in everything but salaries and what can the min that can be charge for a product.

 

ATP requirements, would have a very lasting effect on schools, airlines, and the FAA.

Universities would attract less students into flying programs, as noone would want to wait 4 years just to get a multi com, and maybe a cfi ticket, and then wait some more to build time. ATP-DCA-American Flyers, would have to close down their professional pilot programs, because there aint no way in hell you can get an ATP in 90 days.If they chose to actually incorporate the ATP flying into the program it would be way too expensive to attract students...from this country anyway-unless they guaranteed a regional job placement.Planes would be flying all the damn time, kids would be dreading the flying.

Regional management would be pulling their hair out as they would not have the liquidity of pilots that they needed,or wanted.While pay just might improve, pay was never dependant on total time in the first place, it was dependant on seniority-and seniority is luck of the draw, so dont expect anything to change on the way of how much we get paid.

The FAA would get hammered with calls and letters from FBO's, Universities, and Airlines so that they would tweak the legislation slightly, down to maybe 1000 hours, or maybe not at all. The FAA doesn't like to look bad.

Even with ATP's there are still pilots who cant really fly an airplane as well as most people with that amount of time should.At Compass we still have Captains, who can't tell the difference between lightning strikes, and static discharges, captains that flare so damn much that you cant see the runway until the tail hits the pavement, and brings the nose down, and then we have those that cant tell where they are on a moving map.We also have FO's that like to "Moon" other pilots as they taxi by each other, but little do they know that, the pax have windows too.And all of us have ATP's!

 

BDF,

Respectfully, this is not a true statement. Even in the late 80's and early 90's when I went through, there were 320 applicants (many more but they weeded out the others to examine the best 320) for 60 transfer positions. This was when hiring was at a standstill and the regionals were just a pimple on a knats behind. There will not be a problem with a university that has a flight program. The mills of the world, on the other hand........

The specific statement that you make, "Nobody would want to wait 4 years just to......." really reiterates why we got into this mess to begin with. While it's true you don't NEED 4 years to learn to fly an airplane, the absolute truth was that the candidates, and therefore the pay and QOL was much better (there was a built in weed out process for acceptance to schools. This was long before ATP and Flight Safety, etc.)when it was required.

However, the point that you make when you weren't trying, is that it will take a very dedicated, and therefore, experienced individual(because of the time involved) and that is a VERY GOOD thing, IMO.

 

From papacharlie--"somebody said that 20 years ago to get hire by a regional you needed 2500 tt hours...well that was 20 years ago...how many regional aircarft were flying around the country 20 years ago??? now is a "hole" different picture."

Yes, that's the problem all right!

 

lol sad but so true

 

Yes, you need an ATP MEL for airline purposes.

But I believe the Antonov AN-2 (one of the largest single engine airplanes) could theoretically carry more than enough pax to require an ATP. Not sure about Pilatus, etc.

 

Post accidentally deleted. My touchpad malfunctioned while trying to quote you, and went into moderator edit mode. Feel free to restore your original post if you can remember it.

rickair777

 

"If you get an ATP in a single, you are only able to use your ATP priviledges in a single, which makes it basically a worthless rating."

It's not worthless if congress passes a law saying you need an ATP to work in the 121 biz...

 

How do you know that? Initial Part 121 training was intense but luckily being a CFII helped. But 3 months in my first 121 job I had to shut down an engine on an E120 in IAH and the CA looked at me and said your leg, you can land it.

If money in the short run is your only goal I guess you could concentrate on going 135 instead of 121, but eventually 121 is the highest paying and having done Part 91 I can attest to the pay rates shown in the magazines do not match reality. I saw more than enough Gulfstream IV or later model aircraft with pays under six figures.

A lot of people think by raising the time to 1500TT and an ATP will do a lot to help the regionals. It won't do a thing. By now most competitive mins are probably well above 1500TT, the ATP is a joke you can go do that in two days. Regionals are about to start furloughing more than they have in the past as mainline carriers begin to cut the glut of cost prohibitive 50 seaters. See Comair for details. The jobs will simply not be there and once they do become available you will need much more than 1500 to get it and there will absolutely ZERO incentive for the airlines to raise pay to attract you to them. If you want Netjets, go another way they don't care. You want to be at a major then this is your primary if not only way in and heres $17,000 to start. They'll be higher time but we may have lost the good pilots in the process to other career fields and I cannot blame them.

And if I'm not mistaken, the pilot who caused the Colgan crash was above these mins. The issue there I think falls squarely on the FAA and the Colgan POI.

I want the guy that has the most time in plane, type and operation flying my family. I mean its awesome if you flew for Airnet and did 17 IAPs a night single pilot but I want someone that can fly a jet.

I don't know of an airline where they let you watch the other guy fly. You have to get your SIC in the airplane and you've got to fly it.