FAA chief urges pilots to read Flight 3407...

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08-09-2009, 11:44 AM

#41

MTOP

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2007

Position: CEO

Posts: 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by shfo

That rule is broken thousands of times everyday in regional, major, legacy and low cost carrier cockpits. There are more important things to look at. Sully violated it, the Continental pilots in DEN violated it, the WN pilots in Midway violated it, I'm sure Babbitt violated it on a daily basis. But, the Mesa pilots in Hawaii didn't violate it because they were ASLEEP. I read the whole CVR and found it not nearly as bad as I've seen in a cockpit. Violating sterile did not cause this accident.

I think Mr. Babbitt should read the USAir 1549 transcript where Sully and Jeff are talking about the Delta/NW merger during the push, then Sully calls ops on his Cell phone while they are monitoring tower for takeoff.

You're right. I know of no rule more frequently broken. And yet, breaking this rule did not, in and of itself, cause the CO3407 crash, for example. It was just a symptom of a much bigger issue regarding the competence and professional conduct of that crew. I personally believe that they may have completely avoided violating sterile cockpit and still allowed the airplane to fall out from under them.

08-09-2009, 11:47 AM

#42

SmoothOnTop

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Position: retired

Posts: 645

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise

While we all try to perform 100%, 100% of the time.......it's just not realistic. We're human, and humans make mistakes from time to time.

Guess you must be super-pilot extraordinaire if you think you're any different than any one else.....and if that's the case, you're not welcome on my flight deck.

I'm sorry to hurt tender feelings. Would you prefer:

"if you don't want to get caught intentionally doing anything wrong or substandard...

...don't do it!!!" ?

as far as mistakes while flying, if i got paid 1 dollar for each mistake i've made, i'd own apc...

08-09-2009, 11:54 AM

#43

MTOP

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2007

Position: CEO

Posts: 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWRflyr

Doing an "audit" like FOQA could be argued as looking at trends. The FAA might do a sampling of a certain percentage of voice recorders and could come out with results saying "the vast majority of pilots adhere to the sterile cockpit rule from what we have seen" or "the sterile cockpit rule needs extra emphasis in airline pilot recurrent training based on the data we have sampled to date."

Just playing devils advocate as this would not be using the voice recorders for certifcate or legal action.

This will not happen unless the rules change. And whereas it has been stated here in an earlier post that Mr. Babbitt may have the ability to make rules changes, as FAA Administrator, he does have some ability to make rules changes, but that should not be regarded as an unlimited ability. Any change that he contemplates will necessarily be subjected to months of comment and debate, to pressure from special interests, and ultimately, a predominately economic decision, that could, even further down the line, but subjected to a judicial test.

An example, and I think a good one, is the access to and use of CVR tapes. Now, if the Administrator were to attempt to arbitraily make a wholesale change to this rule, and, say, allow companies or even FAA Inspectors, to access and hear CVR voice recordings, I can guarantee a legal challenge, on a number of grounds, all of which are practically inviolate from a well-established legal perspective.

So don't worry that your CVR tapes are going to be listened to tomorrow, because that is not likely to happen, ever. To win the right to unlimited access to the content of CVR tapes for the purpose of "sampling" or "random checks" for regulatory enforcement or airline company disciplinary purposes would require expending enormous legal and financial resources grossly out of proportion to the value of any information that may be obtained from the tapes, or to aviation safety.

08-09-2009, 12:03 PM

#44

johnso29

Moderator

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: B757/767

Posts: 13,088

Violating Sterile procedures DID NOT cause this accident. Poor working conditions & work rules caused this accident. Smoke & mirrors trying to ONCE AGAIN circumvent the real issue. Comair in LEX violated sterile, Colgan violated sterile, I violated sterile. It's called doing what you have to in order to STAY AWAKE! Govern these PI$$ poor workrules we work under, & maybe we won't need to violate sterile in order to prevent us from falling asleep!!!! ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!! IDIOT!!!!