Major liability for regional mistakes
08-07-2009 | 07:29 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Sitting
And why exactly is that? are there not laws on the books that say you call fatigued when fatigued?
are there not rules at each and every one of your regional/commuter airlines that says you write a plane up when there is an observed defect?
You ALL continue to report for work on time after "scheduled" reduced rest, getting flights out on time, with aircraft that have known "small" defects that "can wait for write up until the end of the day"... Then you fly all day with several multi-hour sits between flights, and the flights still go on time due to mission mentality....
then you expect to be treated, and paid, as a "professional" after acting like that ?
Brian Bedford at Republic has PROVEN there is money in regional airlines otherwise he would not be buying two large plane operators in one month... the notion that the margins are too slim to conduct yourself as a professional, and ground aircraft that have known defects, and to not report yourself fatigued, and to get flights out on time at all costs just re-affirms that while there are many many pilots, and some of them very very very good pilots... there are NOT a lot of professionals.
are there not rules at each and every one of your regional/commuter airlines that says you write a plane up when there is an observed defect?
You ALL continue to report for work on time after "scheduled" reduced rest, getting flights out on time, with aircraft that have known "small" defects that "can wait for write up until the end of the day"... Then you fly all day with several multi-hour sits between flights, and the flights still go on time due to mission mentality....
then you expect to be treated, and paid, as a "professional" after acting like that ?
Brian Bedford at Republic has PROVEN there is money in regional airlines otherwise he would not be buying two large plane operators in one month... the notion that the margins are too slim to conduct yourself as a professional, and ground aircraft that have known defects, and to not report yourself fatigued, and to get flights out on time at all costs just re-affirms that while there are many many pilots, and some of them very very very good pilots... there are NOT a lot of professionals.
08-07-2009 | 08:11 PM
#24
Portuguese Troubleshooter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
From: Burrito Bomber
While I agree some responsibilty needs to be taken for mainlines pure focus on the bottom line, I do think this is quite the slippery slope. While it may riegn in the so called 'bottom feeders', it just sounds like a new avenue for lawyers (not that they haven't taken it as mentioned earlier). Let's remember that Comair (5191) is about as far from a bottom feeder out there. While some responsibilty should fall on how mainline chooses their contractors, I think it should be evaluated on a case by case basis. Fankly, I think our legal system already polices this. Regardless if they are going to be held responsible or not, the cost risk benefit may still fall in mainline's favor to choose the lowest bidder.
08-07-2009 | 08:11 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 0
From: Hot tub for now
Bedford is smart enough to understand that at the regional level if you have stagnation you have death. Mesa was saved by the new contract. If you have regional f/o's for 10 years with a mesa contract you are dead.
Republic has to have growth or movement or something or the pilots grow restless and performance suffers.
Mesa
ASA
are perfect examples. Give them (pilots) a livable wage and watch the problems dissapear.
Republic has to have growth or movement or something or the pilots grow restless and performance suffers.
Mesa
ASA
are perfect examples. Give them (pilots) a livable wage and watch the problems dissapear.
08-08-2009 | 07:05 AM
#26
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
And why exactly is that? are there not laws on the books that say you call fatigued when fatigued?
are there not rules at each and every one of your regional/commuter airlines that says you write a plane up when there is an observed defect?
You ALL continue to report for work on time after "scheduled" reduced rest, getting flights out on time, with aircraft that have known "small" defects that "can wait for write up until the end of the day"... Then you fly all day with several multi-hour sits between flights, and the flights still go on time due to mission mentality....
then you expect to be treated, and paid, as a "professional" after acting like that ?
Brian Bedford at Republic has PROVEN there is money in regional airlines otherwise he would not be buying two large plane operators in one month... the notion that the margins are too slim to conduct yourself as a professional, and ground aircraft that have known defects, and to not report yourself fatigued, and to get flights out on time at all costs just re-affirms that while there are many many pilots, and some of them very very very good pilots... there are NOT a lot of professionals.
are there not rules at each and every one of your regional/commuter airlines that says you write a plane up when there is an observed defect?
You ALL continue to report for work on time after "scheduled" reduced rest, getting flights out on time, with aircraft that have known "small" defects that "can wait for write up until the end of the day"... Then you fly all day with several multi-hour sits between flights, and the flights still go on time due to mission mentality....
then you expect to be treated, and paid, as a "professional" after acting like that ?
Brian Bedford at Republic has PROVEN there is money in regional airlines otherwise he would not be buying two large plane operators in one month... the notion that the margins are too slim to conduct yourself as a professional, and ground aircraft that have known defects, and to not report yourself fatigued, and to get flights out on time at all costs just re-affirms that while there are many many pilots, and some of them very very very good pilots... there are NOT a lot of professionals.
-I'm sure there are just as many pilots at majors (percentage wise) who elect to "carry" minor maintenance items improperly. Actually this is impossible to quantify.
- The major airline schedules I've seen also contain long "sits" between flights.
- Plenty of major airline pilots also face the issue of balancing a fatigue call (and lost pay) and continuing on.
By this token (and your assertions), then there are PLENTY of "unprofessional" pilots at major carriers too.
The problem with your position is you attempt to make this industry a black & white world where all (or 90%) of the problems are only at regionals. I don't buy that for a New York minute. Since the financial woes of many of the majors post 9/11 and the concessionary or BK contracts of the last 8 years, these problems exist industry wide. Yes, some of the smaller regionals like Colgan have far more then the average amount of problems (which should be corrected), but not ALL regionals are that way. On the other end of the spectrum, a LARGE percentage of Eagle pilots schedules are pretty good and have 15-18 days off and their 3-day trips aren't THAT bad. Pay rates (especially F/O) for many regionals are another argument, but your continued criticism of the regional industry is based more on emotion then fact.
08-08-2009 | 07:08 AM
#27
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Don't sweat it too bad. After all, that's all it is.....................opinion.
08-08-2009 | 07:18 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
- I've seen some of the schedules at at least 2 major carriers and "short" overnights are there too.
-I'm sure there are just as many pilots at majors (percentage wise) who elect to "carry" minor maintenance items improperly. Actually this is impossible to quantify.
- The major airline schedules I've seen also contain long "sits" between flights.
- Plenty of major airline pilots also face the issue of balancing a fatigue call (and lost pay) and continuing on.
By this token (and your assertions), then there are PLENTY of "unprofessional" pilots at major carriers too.
The problem with your position is you attempt to make this industry a black & white world where all (or 90%) of the problems are only at regionals. I don't buy that for a New York minute. Since the financial woes of many of the majors post 9/11 and the concessionary or BK contracts of the last 8 years, these problems exist industry wide. Yes, some of the smaller regionals like Colgan have far more then the average amount of problems (which should be corrected), but not ALL regionals are that way. On the other end of the spectrum, a LARGE percentage of Eagle pilots schedules are pretty good and have 15-18 days off and their 3-day trips aren't THAT bad. Pay rates (especially F/O) for many regionals are another argument, but your continued criticism of the regional industry is based more on emotion then fact.
-I'm sure there are just as many pilots at majors (percentage wise) who elect to "carry" minor maintenance items improperly. Actually this is impossible to quantify.
- The major airline schedules I've seen also contain long "sits" between flights.
- Plenty of major airline pilots also face the issue of balancing a fatigue call (and lost pay) and continuing on.
By this token (and your assertions), then there are PLENTY of "unprofessional" pilots at major carriers too.
The problem with your position is you attempt to make this industry a black & white world where all (or 90%) of the problems are only at regionals. I don't buy that for a New York minute. Since the financial woes of many of the majors post 9/11 and the concessionary or BK contracts of the last 8 years, these problems exist industry wide. Yes, some of the smaller regionals like Colgan have far more then the average amount of problems (which should be corrected), but not ALL regionals are that way. On the other end of the spectrum, a LARGE percentage of Eagle pilots schedules are pretty good and have 15-18 days off and their 3-day trips aren't THAT bad. Pay rates (especially F/O) for many regionals are another argument, but your continued criticism of the regional industry is based more on emotion then fact.
08-08-2009 | 05:55 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,168
Likes: 0
From: Reclined
- I've seen some of the schedules at at least 2 major carriers and "short" overnights are there too.
-I'm sure there are just as many pilots at majors (percentage wise) who elect to "carry" minor maintenance items improperly. Actually this is impossible to quantify.
- The major airline schedules I've seen also contain long "sits" between flights.
- Plenty of major airline pilots also face the issue of balancing a fatigue call (and lost pay) and continuing on.
By this token (and your assertions), then there are PLENTY of "unprofessional" pilots at major carriers too.
The problem with your position is you attempt to make this industry a black & white world where all (or 90%) of the problems are only at regionals. I don't buy that for a New York minute. Since the financial woes of many of the majors post 9/11 and the concessionary or BK contracts of the last 8 years, these problems exist industry wide. Yes, some of the smaller regionals like Colgan have far more then the average amount of problems (which should be corrected), but not ALL regionals are that way. On the other end of the spectrum, a LARGE percentage of Eagle pilots schedules are pretty good and have 15-18 days off and their 3-day trips aren't THAT bad. Pay rates (especially F/O) for many regionals are another argument, but your continued criticism of the regional industry is based more on emotion then fact.
-I'm sure there are just as many pilots at majors (percentage wise) who elect to "carry" minor maintenance items improperly. Actually this is impossible to quantify.
- The major airline schedules I've seen also contain long "sits" between flights.
- Plenty of major airline pilots also face the issue of balancing a fatigue call (and lost pay) and continuing on.
By this token (and your assertions), then there are PLENTY of "unprofessional" pilots at major carriers too.
The problem with your position is you attempt to make this industry a black & white world where all (or 90%) of the problems are only at regionals. I don't buy that for a New York minute. Since the financial woes of many of the majors post 9/11 and the concessionary or BK contracts of the last 8 years, these problems exist industry wide. Yes, some of the smaller regionals like Colgan have far more then the average amount of problems (which should be corrected), but not ALL regionals are that way. On the other end of the spectrum, a LARGE percentage of Eagle pilots schedules are pretty good and have 15-18 days off and their 3-day trips aren't THAT bad. Pay rates (especially F/O) for many regionals are another argument, but your continued criticism of the regional industry is based more on emotion then fact.
you do work for one... correct?
Yep, some majors have a "few" short overnights... and if you take a look at their schedules, you will likely see the next morning flights going out late... you regional guys will bite the bullet and show with only 8 hours cockpit to cockpit....
I'd be willing to bet that at major carriers, a pilot has more to lose by accepting a POS aircraft than by writing it up and getting it fixed. Their duty rig, or trip rig will cover them while they get it fixed like they are supposed to... oh wait... you don't have those either....
Sit's... sure, majors have them... they also have trip & duty rigs.... see above.
When every single hour of pay is needed just to put food on your table like most regional pilots living hand to mouth, it is much more difficult to pull the fatigue rip chord... you can deny it, but it's true.
Oh, and you are correct..... 90% of the problems ARE at regionals.
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