Airline Pilot Central Forums - Major liability for regional mistakes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 658692)

Just because I didn't print the entire list that APC lists as a major airline doesn't change anything.... they also comingle LCC's with others too... big deal. The point is he seems to think he works at a major airline, and not just a very very large regional airline. Next he'll compare Eagle with JetBlue since they are both listed in the same section... come on guys.

I think I saw a US Senate hearing the other day with the CEO of EagleFly's airline sitting there.... he certainly wasn't there representing the major airline they subcontract with... they are regional carriers working as subcontractors for mainline airlines; period.

Maybe the solution is for us to become like Jet Blue. A seperate carrier flying larger aircraft like Jet Blue and perhaps code-sharing with others. Sold along with our routes and assets to the shareholders (spin off) to serve our markets comparable to Jet Blue. Why, we would even get rid of these hideous little RJ's and fly E-190's. Then we wouldn't be the evil bad guys anymore right ?

Of course we would. We'll ALWAYS be the "unwashed" in your eyes with eradication and execution the only worthy course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32 (Post 658688)

OMG.... YHGTBSM. the problem with your statement was the second sentence.... when he has to "qualify" his reasoning, then it isn't true.
That is like comparing the Chief of Police in New York City to the Chief of Police in small town USA... hey, they are BOTH Chief's right? Come on guys, have we lowered ourselves to this? Eagle, Comair, and Republic are no more Major Airlines than a Cessna 172 is an Airbus A380...

Sure, there are a few regionals with larger pilot groups, and more aircraft than a few major airlines.... but if calling himself a major makes him feel any better, feel free. Everybody else knows what a reagional carrier is, except him apparently.

Now this is a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about.............unbridled rage and hatred.

Here SOMEONE ELSE makes the statement that I'm a "mjaor airline" pilot and you turn it into an attack on me as if I said it. Please, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THIS....................EVER.

Man, you REALLY got some emotional issues going.

Mod note to all:

I would suggest that the personal attacks and bashing be left off the forums in the future. The mudslinging does nothing but take the thread off topic and is unnecessary.

Methinks Eaglefly doth protest too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Convairator (Post 657774)

Airline laments hiring of Flight 3407 pilot : Home: The Buffalo News airline laments hiring of regional pilot.

I want to point out a very interesting point in this article:
"But the executives withheld judgment on a new proposal by Sen. Mike Johanns, R-Neb., that would make major airlines legally responsible for crashes by the regional airlines they hire to run their smaller routes."

I think there is alot of merit in this comment. I strongly agree with Senator Johanns proposal, because it will help put an end to underbidding contracts, which is an underlying problem in the poor pay and quality of life in the regional airline industry. Majors would start awarding contracts based on more than just lowest bidder (preventing automatic awards to bottom feeders like CJC), because they now share liability.

One point that may have been overlooked: The major airlines are ALREADY legally responsible for the crashes of the regional airlines they hire...

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglefly (Post 657778)

The may force many of the majors to either directly control their regionals or perhaps own them outright. The larger regionals will fare better then the smaller ones and those that already have a tightly controlled network will see little changes and thus less future expense.

We've already been through that, with the likes of American Eagle, where AA pioneered the model whereby the major owns the regional carriers in stead of having strictly contract relationships. It does not change much from a liability standpoint, and in fact probably increases overall liability, but what it does do is force the hand of the major to create systematic oversight over the regional carrier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheels up (Post 657863)

I would hope that they'd pass a law stating that a corporation can have only one operating certificate.

It wouldn't make a bit of difference. Reason: The wholly-owned regional subsidiaries ARE corporations, and most only own a single certificate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheels up (Post 658897)

Methinks Eaglefly doth protest too much.

Me protest ?

I'm perfectly happy with where I'm at (and going) and that apparently angers others who want me not to be......................Methinks you're one of them.

After all, as one whose fingerprints are on the olive branch in our backs, it's what I'd expect you to say, just like O.J. said about the bloody gloves.

Same concept.

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTOP (Post 658929)

I'll buy that.

Nothing much will change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE19Pilot (Post 658182)

The so-called, "single-level" of safety that is being qouted by industry and gov't leaders is one of the biggest lies in all of aviation. A product of deep-rooted corruption at the highest levels of government and industry. It truly makes me sick hearing this being cited...We must face it, our profession and industry are mere shadows of themselves.
Unless and until we get relieft from the RLA things simply will not change. Unless ALPA gets it's act together and presses for a single seniority list. Things will not change. CJC 3407 is going to go quietly into the night, and in the end real change that effects our QOL, pay and benefits is not going to happen. The slim margains, high fixed costs and per-departure fee structure of the regional/codeshare partnership doesn't allow for the funds required to effect our lives. What will effect is going to be a new and ridiculous set of rules that further errod the authorty, initiative and freedom of action that was once the Pilot-in-Command. Centralized systems are a proven failure, and it will fail in the airline industry when they start screwing around with even more burdensome regulations...

Rant complete,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

I wholeheartedly agree with the first paragraph of your statement. You hear "one level of safety" trotted out at every hearing, every meeting involving the differences in operations oversight, safety systems and all of the rest. The reason is that the general public, which is the main audience for this statement, does not have any idea whatsoever about the divergence of safety standards that is demonstrable the further one looks down the commercial aviation food chain. Nor do members of Congress know or probably want to know, the grisly details of the stratified levels of safety that exist throughout the hierarchies of commercial aviation. Did they delve into this immediately after CO3407? Not really. Did they delve into it after one of their own, Sen. Paul Wellstone and his family were killed, due to a lower level of safety in the operation of the airplane he was riding on? No.

Your post went on to suggest that the CO3407 tragedy will fade away into memory eventually, and we'll get back to business as usual. I'd say you're right, except to say that, notwithstanding some hearings and some grandstanding, we have already returned to business as usual.