Nope, never said that, can you show me where I did? But just like some CA's, some FO's suffer from a severe lack of tact.

Again, never said that. And no, it doesn't just magically come to you after the type ride/loft/UOE/fed ride. And I'm anything but a super pilot, but I've spent a fair amount of time in the right seat and not by choice before upgrading BOTH times. It comes with experience. But being a good FO that will make a good CA is the same. Just when you've reached that point where you think you've got it all figured out, you'll realize you don't.

As a follow up, you'd be surprised at the lack of respect that an FO can afford the CA. Especially when they're "senior" and haven't upgraded yet, or won't, for whatever reason. That thing called respect is a two way street you know.

Like I said, just wait till you're CA/AC, you'll see. You can choose not to believe me if you want.

 

Definately call airport ops if you get in a situation like this and the airline ground ops is not helping you out.

I am furloughed and got a job with airport ops at a large airport. we a have 24/7 ops and have all sorts of equipment (tugs, golf carts, airstairs, adjustable ramps, etc) that we can use to offload pax. We manage the police and ARFF response, we are qualified on all of the jetway systems and even have our own gates we manage for charters, overflow, growth, etc.

Most of the guys I work with were probably your classmates if you went to an aviation school, most are at least a private pilot, some, like me, are furloughed and do a little flying on the side still, and many are younger guys waiting for the airlines to start hiring again.

In other words, these guys are pilots, THEY WILL HELP YOU OUT.

Smaller airports are different, for sure, but most will still have some sort of ops guy, at least on call, and most have some equipment or junk laying around that would help you in this situation.

The airlines ground ops are TENANTS, we try to keep them happy, but from my perspective and those I work with (we have been talking about this over the last few weeks), we can and will override an airline if we think they aren't getting the job done. We own the airport, not them, not the TSA (even though those idiots think they do).

You would be surprised what a change of heart you will get simply by asking the ground agent at an airline for the telephone number of Airport Operations. Try it sometime.

 

AirportOPS, I think a few of us here needed hear that Thanks!

 

So basically, as a right seat CA, you really can't answer the questions I asked you about the situation with the wheels up/ground stop issue I outlined, can you? That happens all the time, the XJT issue is pretty rare.

If you've ever been based, or flown out of ORD/JFK/LGA/EWR/IAD, or any other high density airport you'd know what I'm talking about.

 

No one's life or health was in immediate danger so declaring an emergency just to set your pax free on the ramp wouldn't get any praise. In that situation and at that moment, inside the aircraft was probably the safest place for them to be. As a matter of fact, sending them out on the ramp to wander around in a thunderstorm would immediately endanger them instantly.

Someone mentioned an APU fire. That is a REAL emergency and then you would be right to evacuate. What if this was a larger aircraft? Would all the folks that vote for an evacuation blow the slides for the 400 passengers and crew on a 747? How about a 737? If you answer no, then you shouldn't evacuate an ERJ either in this situation. This was uncomfortable for sure but was by no means an emergency situation.

As for passenger accounts. If the lav stinks it is "overflowing". If it truly was then the entire aircraft would have to be disinfected before allowing the passengers back on. A really overflowing toilet is a biohazard.

 

This was a break down in customer service and not a breakdown in safety. If the passengers deplaned they would of had to stay inside the terminal for six hours. Granted the terminal is a lot more comfortable, it is in no way safer than the aircraft. Deplaning the passengers onto the ramp is not a safe option in this situation.

As a captain my decision would have been to call dispatch, talk to the manager on duty, and get the flight canceled. This was the mistake of the CA/XJT, they never canceled the flight. If they had, XJ ops would have opened up a gate to get the passengers off. If the manager of dispatch said the flight was still going, I would have called in fatigued and got the flight canceled anyway. No need to declare an emergency, or go to the FBO or all that jazz.

 

Excellent post. For those unfamiliar......see FAR 139.325. This should clear up any further misunderstanding.



atp

 

Uhhh...okay, I love you guys that call us right-seat Captains! Do you feel threatened by a right-seater that happens to have even an ounce of potential? Would you rather us sit there, twittling our thumbs and not questioning what is going on? Seems to me that that is how one learns how to be a good Captain. There is ego abound in this thread -- watch out! Really, I can't believe that is all you can argue -- that I am a right-seat Captain. A right-seat Captain! How original. You'd better believe that if my Captain ever makes an off-the-wall command decision, or no decision at all, that I will in his stead. Anything less would be dereliction of duty.

And I just happen to based in ORD, and have sat many an hour of flow in such wonderful and exotic places as FSD, CID, and SBN. Don't preach. Wheels up/ground stops are commonplace and I'd expect anybody who's seen it a few times to deal with it well. This isn't a test.

 

Yea no kidding...

 

Amen to that brotha! Perfectly put. All I have to say about captains like the one who has issues with FO's that have potential is...POWER TRIP! They feel threatened. God's gift to the world of aviation.