This is total BS. If any of this in true we all need to stand up and fight for the YX guys. Anything less than full integration of ALL YX pilots is unacceptable. Period.

Its going to happen. Those 300 pilots whom were furloughed will be stapled to the bottom of the list. Its how it happen at Usairways post merger and thus there is a situation with where it has happen in the past. Also as its been mentioned is the fact that people are forgetting that Midwest pilots have a contract that must be followed. At the end of it all, its just time RAH puts everything on one certificate and gets rid of this BS ulter ego crap. Or would that mean a loss of aircraft because American would drop you? Oh wait no no, you form CHQ and only have 50 seat aircraft on that..... ITs a mess.....

But there is a lot of hear say that 2010 all RAH pilots will be recalled and there's talks in the back ground of more aircraft (assume E190's) and expansion. One could only assume its under the Midwest/Frontier colors since i dont forsee any other legacy giving them more flying.

"Midwest has about 1,000 Milwaukee-area positions but is laying off its union pilots and flight attendants while replacing their aircraft with Republic jets. Those Midwest flight crews could be rehired by Republic, but only after their unions and the unions representing Republic flight crews merge their job seniority lists."

So they have no guaranteed jobs but can get REHIRED at RAH? Last I checked being re-hired means you go to the bottom of a list and thus through a interview process..... But you are right, the writting of this paragraph is terrible because then it goes onto to say, "Flight crews merge their job seniority list." So are they all being cut before the list are merged? And thus you just staple them ALL to the bottom?

Midwest has about 1,000 Milwaukee-area positions but is laying off its union pilots and flight attendants while replacing their aircraft with Republic jets. Those Midwest flight crews could be rehired by Republic, but only after their unions and the unions representing Republic flight crews merge their job seniority lists.

Frontier has furloughed pilots also, does the same hold true for them?

Bedford made his remarks in a meeting with the Journal Sentinel's editorial board. He also repeated plans by Republic to add more Midwest flights from Milwaukee, including renewed service to West Coast destinations.

Some of those new flights will be on Airbus A319 and A320 jets from Frontier, Bedford said. Republic is scheduled to complete its purchase of Frontier on Oct. 1.

Would the criticism directed at the RAH guys not be the same for F9?

The Lynx pilots vote for UTU was successful.

UTU: News

The question remains, ALPA, FAPA, IBT, UTU, how is that intigrated?

That's the wrong word used by a newspaper reporter. We all know how accurate the press is...

They will be moved into whatever certificate/ position their seniority will hold after the integration. The biggest thing holding up the integratrion on our end (RAH) is our legal counsels insistence to integrate all four airlines (yes, four, Frontier, Midwest, Lynx, and Mokulele) and 1,300 pilots into our already 2,000 pilots all at the same time. We're still waiting on the acquisition of Frontier/ Lynx in finalize.

Congrats. I know you guys were ignored by ALPA and the IBT when you guys were looking for representation last year.

As far as the second, who knows. There is no precedent for anything like this.

More words. I didn't see the word certificate in your contract.
So, Republic can't code-share or outsource for your own company.

What are you guys doing taking all the Midwest flying and sending 130 more Midwest pilots into unemployment? Let me guess...

Giving your support

Write a LOA for the 130 Midwest pilots!

Has anyone reminded the E-190 pilots flying out of MKE that they are in complete violation of the Midwest Pilots Contract? Or does that simply not matter. As long as the Republic crews are getting flying, screw the Midwest guys even more. MD80, I agree with you. DON'T TRUST THESE GUYS.

You guys are lucky the Midwest pilots didn't use that same line for the Midwest E170 flying. But TPG/BB wouldn't agree to that because they wanted to use Republic pilots to undermine our contract.

I mean... why would BB want to provide retirement funding, trip guarantees, and industry average pay rates. He has you guys.

Since you seem to know more then other guys at RAH and seem to be educated on the real issues let me ask a few questions.... What's the current thought on the integration since all of the airlines you mentioned have furloughs except Mokulele? Will all the furloughed pilots be stapled on the bottom of the list including the furloughed pilots of Midwest/Frontier or is there a push to give them a good spot on the over all list? I realize its not fair for someone who is currently on property to be put to the street, but when an opening does happen are they just going to fill that position based on the system seniority or will they displace/furlough guys once the list is completed? And lastly are they still hinting at a fense structure due to the Frontier pilot group or would the Midwest pilots be included in that group of pilots due to their previous aircraft? Seems like a lot of areas that are uncertain especially since it appears you are about to double in size. And if you cannot answer some of those questions I do understand. I just want to get a bettere gut feeling about those pilots at Midwest but I just have an awful feeling about it. But perhaps the RAH group will shock me and do something to get them where they belong instead of on the bottom of a regional list....

And lastly I keep hearing this word of GROWTH? How much more can RAH grow? Are they wanting to push the Midwest/Frontier flying into a larger product and take the regional aircraft and feed them or what's the thought there? I just dont see any legacy airline giving them more flying due to there being ZERO flying to be given to anyone with the cuts being back to min contracts on nearly every regional feed.... So it leaves me thinking the growth would be under Midwest/Frontier with more E190's and Airbus?

Frontier will be a follow on to Midwest. The jobs that were so called "saved" will slowly go away with more pilots and flight attendants on the street while sub-pat wages take over. The IBT will give one line to the Frontier pilots about how they would be glad for them to join the RAH group and then roll over and act like they should be so lucky to still have a job. I was part of RAH and if even a portion of the same mentalilty of the pilot group exsists today as it did when I was there; I would say don't trust RAH as a whole. There are pilots that believe in doing what is right, but they are few and far between these days. A flight instructor believes they are entitled to more because they "flight instructed" for two years and were hired by the "dominent carrier" in a merger. They are willing to throw any gains in their carrier for the long shot at a quck upgrade. RAH has been selling the pipe dream on a quick upgrade and then you'll move on for years...unfortunately they keep getting people to buy off on it and now it is affecting the whole industry and lining the pockets of management.

The pilots at Midwest will not allow our furloughed pilots who lost their jobs to the 170s of Republic to be stapled on the bottom of any list especially when their over all seniority number is higher than %98 of all the combined airlines in this merger. It isn't going to happen.

If you're(YX pilots) angry that integration isn't going as fast as possible, look to your new management and your future brothers at F9. The RAH integration committee can't proceed until they get fleet plan info from the company, and F9 agreeing to come to the table. They won't get deep into the integration process until they know what the future company will look like, and until they get all parties in one room. To do so otherwise would be a waste of time.

Can anyone blame Frontier pilots for not trusting BB or IBT747 ?

Both of you guys have a history to live down. You can earn respect with actions and only then will you be trusted.

"You guys"

Which is it? BB and IBT? OR BB, IBT RAH Pilots? I expect by "you guys" you mean to lump us in with management and IBT.

I have a question for Midwest Pilots, in the last 8 or so years as Midwest started to decline, did the pilot group give concessions to the company?

For a nano-second -- Let's pretend that BB is going to pay pilots 25% more than he does today. Do you really think that the Midwest 5 year FO is going to sign on with RAH to move down from his current $71 per hour to the $46 per hour an RAH 5 year FO would be making (and that is at the a 25% increase- current rate is $37 per hour). Additionally, he would likely have another five years as an FO. This is due to the fact that an upgrade at RAH will likely now be 10 years or more when all the lists are merged.

There is going to be so much fall out from the merged lists, that by the time the dust settles, American and Delta will be hiring again before anyone gets an upgrade at RAH. The key to any positive coming from any of this is for the pilot's unions to be as fair as possible to all sides. No matter what happens -- the guys at the tale end of every list are going to get screwed -- F9, Midwest, and RAH -- period. It would truly be best for all concerned for all of the keyboard commandos out there to support their union and quit bashing each other. In the end, when pilots quit bashing each other, management will have far lesser advantage. Example - if EVERY pilot out there supported an national 121 seniority list by aircraft type, do you think all of this bashing would be going on?

If you work for RAH, Midwest, Frontier, Mesa, Comair, or any other Regional (or yes "Nationals" for the bottom feeding keyboard commando's) raise the bar and support the goal of overall pilot professionalism and quit the jealous inter-company bashing. I don't know of a single pilot right now that has the option to say "I quit" because he happened to end up working for a company where he does not approve of his management's actions. Until those day return, quit bashing other pilot groups, grow up and work together. For Pete's sake -- put your big boy pants on.

Hot topic... the only thread still open.

Hi!

MWA pilots and, I believe, ALL their employees took MASSIVE paycuts and concessions.

cliff
NBO

Gift Horse
 

Any truth in the rumor that F9 are going to paint a Gift Horse on the tail of their next airplane as a reminder of turning down the Southwest offer:D

I honestly don't know so I'm just asking. What part of your contract is being violated? Are you going to strike over it? What other legal recourse is there?

Again just asking but what do you mean by this? Do you know something that hasn't been released? Last I heard Midwest wanted arbitration so that meant there wasn't an agreement. Where are you getting this 98% number?

Relax Duck, it was only a matter of time before Larry (dirtyrat), Curly (md80), and Moe (yxnot) locked on to this thread. All others are being closed as a result of their mature and insightful observations.

Oh I'm relaxed :D

Oh, I don't know. We just filed a grievence over more scumb taking our jobs. JOB REPLACEMENT. UNDERMING OUR CONTRACT by CHEAPER LABOR. THROWING US OUT INTO THE STREETS WHILE LESS EXPERIENCED, LESS PAID PILOTS TAKE OUR JOBS. Is that clear enough for you?

I asked which parts of your contract are being violated and you responded with "I don't know". Not trying to sound rude but no it didn't answer my question. Come on man try and keep it civil. It's an honest question and doesn't warrant name calling. Either respond in kind or just hit the back button. It's a little hypocritical to tout maturity, professionalism, etc then run around ranting and raving calling people names. I keep seeing tons of rants on here but anytime someone asks for something to substantiate them they always come up empty. I don't know your contract so if there's a part of it being violated by having 190s flown by RAH what is it?

Iis your contract available online some where? It would be nice to see it so that other pilots (not just RAH) can look at it and see what works and what doesnt work and apply that to their next contracts.

Curlys here, I guess we just see things alittle different. Respect your elders young man ;)

I'm just having a little fun Curly. I do wish we could all talk about things with civility but myself and most of us at RAH appreciate how hard that can be with everything you folks are losing and the manner in which it's being taken away. As always, I hope you'll bring your experience and knowledge over here and help grow this into a good place to be. I know it's making lemonade out of lemons as far as your group is concerned but unfortunately it appears that very few seniority lists are immune to life cycles. I know the pain, I've had two die with my name on them.

yeah respect the old guys who want to see your layed off cause they have been there longer and insult you because your company's president bought their company. by the way they are more mature

Part of maturity is learning how and when to bite your tongue. This comment doesn't help anything.

And this helps how? (that coming from a much older and more "mature" pilot)

There are pilots, (and regular employees) at every company who you know will never get hired anywhere else. You wonder how the heck could they have made it into the place I work at? Was the HR head hung over that day? I'm beginning to suspect that this site is the repository for said employees.

You get on a four day with them and within the first hour they know that you are in the presence of greatness. I point guys like this out to my son at the supermarket and show them how inappropriate it is to act like a horse's behind. I remind him that grown ups sometimes are raised by crummy non-loving parents who teach them that the world is against them and that they are perpetual victims.

Victims are simply players in the huge drama of life and unfortunately they are necessary for the rest of us to realize that our lives are, for the most part, an incredible miracle.

You don't HAVE TO BE A PILOT, you can be anything and do anything you want with your life. As this pathetic career choice unveils itself to you, ask yourself, what would really make me happy? I can think of a thousand other ways this thread can head. You all think that this is a longevity career. The dream is unfortunately over. Get used to it. The best thing all you new family members can do is band together at the next Republic function and get heard in person. The Internet is no way to communicate to get heard. BAND TOGETHER AT A PUBLIC PLACE IN PERSON and let management know you guys mean business, not perpetual mudslinging.

Perhaps I am simply tired, but I don't understand your comment. 95% of the offensive stuff on here need not be said, which would leave a website with useful, constructive debate and conversation. Instead, someone has to lash out and retort instead of simply walking away. How long does an arguement last with only one person?

I never said I wanted anyone to be layed off but I would rather see it happen to you, the ones that undercut us, than one of my fellow pilots. Our people are on the streets with years more seniority and experience than most of your entire list. You bought us. You bought our seniority. Again, we will do what we have to with an arbitrator in order to get us a fair deal. If it requires numerous RAH people to down grade or be furlouged, so be it. No big deal to me. I don't owe you or your company anything but as long as they own my company, they own my contract. I expect them to fullfill that contract until the end. That includes you.

Another mature, thoughtful, post rat. Is this how the majority of Midwest pilots act? You rat are anything but professional. Grow up.

You didn't answer my question earlier about what in your contract is being broken by the 190s. You keep saying what you deserve and how you won't take anything less but what else are you going to do? No offense intended but serious question. You say you want to be at the top of the list but what options do you really have if that isn't the case? You say "no" then what? When you say that you won't accept anything less does that mean if something less than what your idea of fair is offered that you're going to walk away? I honestly don't see this 98% number of yours as something realistic. It might not hurt to lower your expectations a little bit and not expect to walk out of anything with the world in your pocket.

have any of you midwest guys seen how the usair/america west merger went? you do realize that the precedent is to put the furloughed people at the bottom of the list right? also do you realize what happend to shuttle america when they were merged with chautauqua (essintially the RAH list)? If I were a Midwest pilot I would take the first deal the IBT gives you because it wont be good once this goes to arbitration.

This is a Merger, not a hostile takeover. You owe at least 257 pilots an explanation why they should be junior to you when they have more years in than you have been alive.

because my company wasn’t flying around 120 seat airplanes with 100 seats in them trying to compete with every other carrier that flies into the metropolises of MKE and MCI while hoping that some fattening cookie would make their profit margins jump. Or maybe because I am trying to live my life and its more valuable than what ever problems you have right now.

not to be crude but just because your older and have been flying longer doesnt mean that the entire RAH pilot list should roll over and give you our jobs and seniority. We are all out here just trying to survive just like every other pilot out there. Now your group has been imunne to this type of thing for the most part but welcome to the world of every other legacy carrier. They have all lost flying to regionals/contract carriers in the past 15 years or so. I am not saying its right or that I agree with it but frankly its the way it is. I would love to have a job at any legacy but they arent even that good anymore. Everyone has the same crappy schedules, bullsh!t work rules, and don't get paid what they are worth. I think its time you midwest guys suck it up and realize that this whole industry sucks and complaining about it on an internet website is not going to help. If it would I can bet those 1500-2000 american pilots who havent worked this DECADE would have figured it out that complaining and argueing with fellow pilots would some how change managments minds and they would be graciously given their jobs back.