Do you want to maybe change your statement. No holes in your contract, read the bold. As I said, you are flying the 170/190 because you are CHEAPER, nothing less, nothing more. Not because you have a great contract. The company would argue the 170 was originally scheduled for F9 and now to YX. I'm a pilot, not a lawyer, and even I can pick apart your contract. You don't think a seasoned lawyer will find crap like this.

G. Sale/Transfer/Lease of Companies’ Aircraft
The Company or any Subsidiary of the Company, Republic Airways
Holdings, Inc. (the Parent) or any Subsidiaries of Republic Airways
Holdings, Inc. may not sell, lease or transfer an aircraft to another air
carrier or entity for the purpose of evading the terms of this agreement.
The Company, Republic Airways Holdings, Inc. (the Parent) or any
Subsidiaries of Republic Airways Holdings, Inc. may sell, lease or transfer an aircraft to another air carrier or entity when the Company no longer requires such aircraft for its operation.

Better to have a lousy contract than none at all. Better to be employed than unemployed.

Why did the Frontier pilots choose RAH over SWA? Because they'd rather have a job than a cute leather jacket and an unemployment check.

We are all commodities, fellas. Get used to it.

Do you think I'm lying to you. As I said, you are in the 170/190 because you are CHEAPER. I have been a union member for 13 out of my 20 year aviation career. During that time, it ALWAYS seems that the company will have smarter, better, more expensive , more slimy lawyers than our union does. There are ways around every thing. I'm a pilot , not a lawyer and I can pick stuff like this out. You don't think BB has some type of plan for all of this and to do it on the cheap. Do you think he will open up his pocket book because he likes you. Don't want to be rude, but guys really need to wake up. The best way to judge what I'm saying is, is our profession getting better or worse? You be the judge!

I thought Republic was flying the 170/190 for Midwest Connect because some stupid CEO and CFO who shall remain nameless bluffed with a pair when trying to negotiate with Boeing who had a straight flush and called them on it, hence the additional 717s for Click in Mexico.

I thought TPG and BB worked together to find the cheapest labor costs for Midwest E170/E190. You can't grow a airline on B717.



Finding the executive talent to lead a turnaround is never easy.
"The hardest part of our job is finding great CEOs," said Coulter (who is not related to former Bank of America Corp. CEO David Coulter).
In addition to operational expertise, Texas Pacific looks for those with strong leadership and interpersonal skills.
"When we visit a company, we watch the CEO interact with people in the hallway. Do people say hello to him?" Coulter said.
Often, Texas Pacific is negotiating with a potential CEO even as it's hammering out details of the acquisition. They have a philosophy of building value as opposed to cutting corners to make a quick buck."

I fixed it for you.

Once again..I'll explain in simple terms. BB was NEVER planning on selling the birds or leasing them to YX. Why did you leave out the part that these birds MUST be flown by RAH employees? Never mind..your mind is clearly made up, so I'll move on.

Please, please continue to try to explain it to me in simple terms because these are the legal terms. Do you guys read any of this stuff or just go by what you make up on your own.

These are the facts and the legal contract, not what I wrote or made up.

Key commercial terms of the agreement include:
1. Under the Airline Service Agreement (“ASA”), Midwest will purchase all capacity at predetermined rates and will directly pay or reimburse Republic for industry standard pass-through costs.

2. The first aircraft will be placed into service on October 1, 2008 and the last aircraft on November 15, 2008.

3. The agreement has a term of ten years. However, at Midwest’s option, and at any time prior to June 1, 2010, Midwest can elect to convert the ASA into a long term aircraft lease. The 12 E170’s would be leased from Republic for the remaining duration of the ASA and operated on the Midwest Airlines operating certificate.

4. All fuel will be purchased directly by Midwest and will not be charged back to Republic.

5. Republic made a one year term loan to Midwest in the amount of $15.0 million, with an additional loan commitment of $10.0 million, based on the achievement of certain milestones.
6. The loan(s) is collateralized by all of Midwest’s unencumbered assets and generally be senior to other lender’s security position.

As part of the financing agreement, Republic has entered into an airline services agreement with Midwest to operate 12 Embraer 170 jets under the Midwest Connect brand. Republic will operate the 76-seat Embraer 170s until Midwest can transition the fleet under its own FAA operating certificate. The new Embraer 170 service will be introduced into Midwest Connect’s schedule throughout the fall, beginning October 1.

The airline said it plans to continue negotiating with the unions representing its pilots and flight attendants on concessions necessary to align its labor costs to the marketplace, in order to meet one of the final goals of its restructuring plan. It also said that the airline services agreement with Republic would result in additional furloughs for Midwest pilots, flight attendants and maintenance staff until Midwest can operate the Embraer 170 fleet on its own FAA operating certificate. The airline said it expected this process, which includes training for its flight crews and maintenance staff, would take eight months to a year.

Some of you guys who posted here sure have changed your tune over the last year. Just came up with this link and read some old post. From disgust of what was happening to now, this was our flying all along.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-airlines.html

There is still a lot of disgust. However, many are just flat out tired of coming on these public forums and seeing people like you calling RAH pilots "virtual scabs" or whatever made up term you guys have used. The more you guys attack the RAH pilots, the less sympathy you're going to get. The purchase of midwest is not something the pilots can change. The ONLY thing we can do from here is move forward. Our union has said the integtration of ALL airlines at the same time is in our best interest, and their logic makes sense. They are looking out for our pilot group, period. Just as yours is looking out for you.

Its kind of ironic how you guys are blasting away at us, stealing bags, etc. Then you're up in arms how we're not sympathetic enough and giving in to your every request.

What is ironic is your post. I have only stated facts on here of what is going on. NEVER once called anybody a scab, never. Have never attacked any pilots, in fact called on the pilot groups to work together to put pressure on management to bring our profession back to a profession. By the way, I also have never asked for or want any body's sympathy. I have always fought for what I have and for what I have earned.

It seems you are the one name calling with accusations.

Its kind of ironic how you guys are blasting away at us, stealing bags, etc. Then you're up in arms how we're not sympathetic enough and giving in to your every request.[/quote]

You are kidding, right, seriously! Stealing bags, etc. Seriously!

I guess I should have been more specific. I did not mean you in particular, but the YX guys posting on this board. Those words have been said, repeatedly. Bags have been taken on at least one occasion in MKE. These childish arguments have gotten us absolutely no where. Typing this makes me realize how useles this really is. Nothing will be solved on APC outside of childish bickering and arguing. Good luck and welcome to RAH.

Aren't we all going to be Republic pilots? Should your union be trying to unite us into one union?

If the answer is, YES.

Republics EXCO needs to rethink its approach because you're creating a divided membership.

I hear that the problem is with Republics EXCO. Teamster National, ALPA National and Midwest pilots are all trying to get the Republic EXCO to get the integration talks started.

Has anyone heard the reason Republics EXCO wants a single integration? What's the big deal?



ps. I hear it's not coming from the Teamster attorneys

Well 80 there are other airlines to consider. It's not just between what Midwest wants and what RAH wants. I haven't seen anyone of you show any consideration to Frontier, Lynx, or Mokulele. I'd figure it would be more advantageous for everyone to see what everyone is proposing. I'm not speaking on behalf of the unions involved just saying if given the options I'd like to know what deal everyone is pushing for.

OK, but why aren't meetings already schuduled on integration? We know who the players are, it's going to happen... right! Why the delaying actions by your EXCO?

I can think of only ONE reason.

What's the reason? Those guys have a lot to go through and the Frontier purchase is not yet finalized. I can't answer why they are or are not doing anything but the world isn't out to get you regardless of what that ALPA propaganda wants everyone to believe. When only looking out for yourself it's easy to throw things around and wanting everything now but what if it were the other way around and Midwest had purchase 4 other airlines. Do you think they'd be all ready to go so quickly? Look at US Air and what those guys had to go through. That was two. Here you have five. There's a lot to go through. What if this rush to arbitration makes something much worse happen then what was being planned? Once you cross that line you can't go back. What if the Frontier guys want RAH to hold off on Midwest so they can be part of the process? (just a what if again not saying it's the case I'm simply pointing out how it might be beneficial for everyone to show some patience)

they are still waiting to hear from the company what the final fleet plan will be. they want to know how many jobs there will be so they can then develop a seniority list that will screw as few of us all as possible.

Is this new info? Last I heard all furloughs would be back by the end of 2010. I think the IBT put this out.

Killer: We are losing our jobs and being replaced by lower paid workers. How can you get anymore "screwed" than that?

My question is why will you have a job in 3-12 months (guess on how long it will take to integrate yall)?

Answer: Republic

While I don't have a dog in this fight, I do have friends that have been on the street so Republic had the money to buy an Airline that was (F)ailing. Why is that, GREED. Greed of former executive management and pilots alike. So this is the road that you are on now, why in the hell are you so bitter? I would be saddened where my career has gone but there is some glimmer of hope still left, correct? Why not embrace where you are (come to grips), and try and work to make your life better or at the very least as good as it can be.

Once yall complete the first of its' kind 5 way integration everyone should get together for a drunkfest to celebrate the world not ending.


Good luck to all, and to all a good beer (or year if you don't drink)!

Get Real. With airlines like Delta and others pulling the plug on BB's party, he has to have an airline instead of being the leach that they are, sucking the life blood out of other pilot groups. All that will be left in his little empire will be Midwest and Frontier. There are going to be a lot of RJ's sitting idle with nowhere to go soon. This little adventure will be done in three years. Since the majority of the Midwest guys are senior to all four of the others, it is my hope that we get all we can out of this low life company we have been forced to join.

Dirty Rat~you sure are a class act! With that attitude, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Do you have anything to substantiate any of your claims? Which plug is delta pulling? The majority of Midwest guys are senior? I guess the integration happened while I was in the shower.

All the Midwest pilots are going to the unemployment line without a letter, email, LOA, integration meeting schedule, integration plan or even a message on your web site.

Why should we trust you?

The bad attitude should not surprise any Republic pilots.

These Republic people live in their own little world. Undercutting another pilots way of life for their own gain is what they do. That is the purpose of their company. What the pilots of Republic don't realize is the majors are starting to wise up. Midwest was the test bed and the pilots at the airlines who have given them flying are waking up to the fact that they are next if they do not stop this "Wal-Mart" way of doing business. As the pilots of Frontier will soon find out, Republic is a preditor who eats the careers of those who paved the way for them. They have no shame crawling into an aircraft that has been painted in another carriers colors while throwing those pilots out in the street. Contracts don't matter to these people. Even their own.

Yep thats us. We all signed an oath of allegiance to bedford and his union busting, pilot career destroying, wal-mart style of flying. We were all told in the interview that we would only be hired if we were willing to fly a midwest airlines route and replace and undercut their pilot group. Then we were told that the next group would be frontier followed by delta, united, virgin atlantic, and finally American. We had to sign a contract that included a clause that we would be virtual scabs. Also there was a vow of silence so that we wouldnt spread the future of the company.

Yep, that is why your reputation is so good in the industry.

Unfortunately, you've soiled yours all by yourself...

Flamebait and bashing. Thread closed.