What stands out in your post and what seems to be the gist of most RAH pilots feelings is " It's not right, I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is" and what you might as well add is "I'm not going to do anything about it and neither is my Union".

It's not the RAH pilots who feel this way. It is almost every pilot group. Anytime a pilot group has stood up together and achieved progress, another smaller leaner group has cut their legs out from under them. (Comair, ExpressJet come to mind as examples) This current situation isn't the RAH pilot groups fault. They sure do play a nice scapegoat though. And while I think a few of their pilots are pricks, I think the majority of them feel powerless to stop what has happened. Toothpaste usually doesn't go back in the tube, can't stop the toilet from flushing, can't get the pee out of the pool... etc you get the point.

RAH's union sucks. So does every other union that represents airlines. Last we forget, pilots hate ALPA too. Yes the unions have made mistakes, but to be honest the political and social environment over the last 25 years has not been good for unions to make inroads and progress. We are seeing the effects of deregulation greater than ever before. Reduction in safety, (Colgan, SWA) and reduction in quality of pilot lifestyles.

Deregulation has worked and we are all competing for a smaller pieces of pie. Pilots need to realize that we are all hedged against each other and that is the way people who run airlines like it. The current seniority system we have, it doesn't work. Eventually someone in this country will figure it out, most of the foreign carriers already have. In the mean time, we will continue chest beating and attacking those who are only the pawns of their management. This year it is RAH. Soon enough it will be somebody else. Fire Away!

Moe here
 

[quote=Killer51883;674821]because my company wasn’t flying around 120 seat airplanes with 100 seats in them trying to compete with every other carrier that flies into the metropolises of MKE and MCI while hoping that some fattening cookie would make their profit margins jump. Or maybe because I am trying to live my life and its more valuable than what ever problems you have right now.

Not a lot of respect for a company that your CEO hopes will help allow RAH to remain profitable in these tough times and by extension keep you employed flying Hugh Jass around the country. Midwest didn't corner over 50% of the MKE market by providing crappy service.

Too many (YX folks included)on this board are way over the top when it comes to this discussion and people need to tone it down 20 notches.

A lot of damage has been done to marginalize YX over the past 18 mos. and it will take a minor miracle to rebuild, especially in the face of competition with WN and AirTran.

If RAH starts losing feed contracts it will be imperative for the "combination of Midwest and Frontier" to be a complete success in order to survive.

Keep it civil.

To use your argument what of this did the midwest pilots control? You say that you shouldn't be treated as the enablers you are because your management did it and not you. So if you shouldn't pay the price for what your management has done neither should the midwest guys right? So then to be fair I guess ALPA won't bring up that you took the midwest jobs and the teamsters won't bring up the condition of the company and seniority list.

Am west/us air is not even comparable. This merger and it is a merger is between 2 companies in different position in a normal pilots career progression. It just happens to be that the company at the lower position in career progression is taken over two other airlines who are at a higher position in career progression. Secondly Am west/us air was a merger to increase economies of scale. Both had marketing, sales, ticketing, etc. Republic needed frontier and midwest to provide these things. As this continues it will become more and more clear just how much midwest and frontier are bringing to the table. For instance a real training department. Not the joke you have now.

Doesn't seem like we are solving anything here. But I have a question for everyone...

The FAA is considering the requirement that all airline pilots have a ATP rating and 1500 hrs. Not that its going to happen... but would it solve the problems in airline mergers/bankruptcy if the FAA required a minimum flight experience.

example:

Aircraft seats..................PIC required Total Time

51......................................5,000
101...................................10,000
151+ ................................15,000


It would be a Class of ATP license (A,B,C) and it would allow a experienced pilot to get rehired as a Captain. Any airline that was expanding quickly would want to hire laid-off pilots with flight time.

So you are saying that you want the majority of Military men and women coming in to go straight to a 50 seat RJ? Real smart chief I'm sure they would love that.

Being a captain is an honor and a privilege. Not everyone should become a captain. I know quite a few captain's who would make much better first mates. This idea of captain entitlement based on seniority is crap. The high seas don't work this way and neither should aviation.

I drove a hotel van and the fighter guys were never happy coming back from a interview SIM evaluation.

Were their instrument skills the best .... No
Were they experienced in TRW and Icing .... No
Were they knowledgable in 121 ops.... No

Why should a fighter pilot with fewer hours be hired over a 5000 hour regional captain with a equal education?

The military (good old boy) network at the majors.

What about the heavy guys? They don't accrue ungodly hours, either...

How many of your posts aren't about how much you feel you're entitled to?

I think most posts are about issues ....

- Midwest merger with Republic
- TPG history in the airline business
- Republic integration with Midwest and Frontier
- Teamsters handlimg of Midwest flying
- SEC filings
- Articles found on the internet
- Republic undermining Midwest contract negotiations
and
- A question about a using flight experience as a National Seniority list

You tell me Duck

I think the heavy guys get more flight time. Military pilots should have the total time within a few years to be Captain at a major

No offense Cliff but "I believe" leaves a bit of a gray area. Can anyone confirm this? Did the pilots take a percentage cut? Over the past 8 years most carriers took cuts but don't know the previous history of MWA.

The Midwest pilots took over eight million in concessions in 2003. That's a lot for only 290 pilots at the time. Those concessions ended up giving the company almost $30 million over that five year period. The concessions were mainly work rule related because the scum TH did not want to reduce our hourly rate. Hard to justify giving yourself millions when the people who provide those millions are taking wage cuts. We gave then and we are giving now in the form of Republic taking our jobs. Anything else?

They tooookeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr jooooooooooobbbbbbbsssss..........

http://rlv.zcache.com/they_took_our_...86yhmi_325.jpg

Please tell us why pilots being forced to take over a fifty percent pay cut while others on the list are thrown out into the streets and being replaced is funny to you. I guess you are all for lowering the bar. Enjoy your ride at the bottom.

Some Republic guys just see this alittle different.

I mean, if you look at SkierGuy22 postings. He's furloughed from Republic, just got his Gold Seal CFI and is working on his ATP license. He's not concerned about pay scales, work rules, benefits, retirement planning or the future of our profession. All he wants is to build flight time and upgrade to Captain so he can apply at a real airline.

Congratulations SkierGuy22 on getting the Gold Seal.

Gold Seal. Wow, I am impressed. I guess he is busy training the next generation that BB will use to cut his current pilots wages in half.

I'm no fan of yours dirtyrat, but I do and always have empathized with your situation. That said, I'm truly sorry anyone would have so little empathy and respect for others that they would joke about your situation. If this poster is indeed one of our pilots, he/she is an embarrassment to our group and to pilots in general.

Thank you for your kind words vabond. We may disagree on the subjects but we know a low life when he speaks. This guy should be banned.

You have anything to back that up or are you once again making things up on another's behalf?:rolleyes:

Dirty Rat I don't think anyone is saying that what's happened with Midwest is funny. Some are probably just poking at a few of you for the non-stop complaining, whining, and finger pointing. You guys fail to see that Midwest was a failed airline. Do a little searching back a few years here on the forum and read posts about "the writing's on the wall" etc. Long before RAH was ever in the picture. I'm sorry these things have happened to you guys but you're really fooling yourself if you think Midwest was a nice thriving place that was capable of surviving the turmoils of the industry. Obviously it wasn't. I'm not trying to come off as rude or mean here but you guys are really pushing it with the attitudes you're showing to others. The non-stop name calling, finger pointing, and flat out harassment needs to go. If you don't like what future RAH has to offer you then you always have the option to seek employment elsewhere. I'm not saying anyone here has to like those cards but for once lets be a little realistic and accept the fact that those are the ones that were dealt. You can either complain all day about the past or try and be a little constructive about your future. P!ss|ng off everyone you're hoping to get a good integration from seems a little counter productive in my opinion.

Mr Toilet,

Please show me the data sheets that show Midwest not being around on its own. Its been on its own for 25 years. It was not bankrupt. Just because a maggot in a blue suit says its going down does not mean that is the end of it. Did we have problems? Yes. We we hurting dollar wise? Depends on who you ask. When TPG bought the company in early 2007, Midwest had more cash on hand than any other airline out there. After it was raped and picked clean by Northwest, there was nothing left. We had a CEO who was an imcompetent jackass and was backed by a board of his friends who looked the other way while this moron dug himself deeper and deeper into a hole. It is now just a shell of what it was and you guys going around telling the public on your flights that you are Midwest isn't helping things on our end. You are not Midwest. You are not and never will be. You may own the brand but you will never deliver on what we built. That is why I am urging all my friends and family to never fly Midwest again.

You're going to fly for Republic? That will be interesting....

Data sheets I don't have but what I do have is enough common sense to see that when a major has to borrow money from a regional, instead of lending institutions, then things aren't working out. You're basically telling me I can't believe anything stated by your company, press, my company, or anyone else except what you chose to believe here. I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. The ranters here will spend one second discrediting a source then turn around and use it later on when it suits them. No I don't have data sheets but you have an airline that was purchased by a regional and stated that without funding they wouldn't have made it. If you have something to prove otherwise I'd love to see it. I'm all for getting the facts.

I've asked you three times, this makes four, to show me how your contract is being violated and haven't seen anything come from it. You simply took your rants in another direction. All you do is complain and point fingers at everyone you can yet offer nothing substantial. I fully appreciate the situation for what it is and sympathize with everyone caught up in it, including you even though your actions make me hope I never have the displeasure of meeting you, and I honestly think there's real potential. I also realize that the past is the past and no matter how much you want you can't change that. The way I see it you have two options, this applies to everyone in life, where you can either sit and complain about things that can't be helped or you can be the person that tries to make things better. With those options, that we all have, I never understand why anyone wouldn't chose the latter. You can either be part of a problem or part of the solution. Where's the rational in you coming to work here then turning around and telling everyone you know not to fly the brand? If you're that hard-up to end up on the street just resign.

TD

Vanguard and ATA were failed airlines.

Airtran wanted to buy Midwest.

Northwest and TPG wanted and bought Midwest.

RAH wanted and bought Midwest.

Midwest never filed for bankruptcy.

Midwest is a failed airline only in the sense that it failed its own employees.

The ones who made it so successful.

Midwest had a 50% + share of all MKE traffic 18 mos ago.
thats a failed airline HOW???



You seem to beat that horse dead and I'm guessing thats how you rationalize your complicity in what your CEO has done. Thats OK if thats what helps you sleep. Just remember that Biron Buford thinks Midwest is in part, his ticket to the big time. I've seen the Midwest E190 in LAX.
He could have chosen Hooters air if he wanted.

I need a RAH escort to the company picnic??? Anyone??

Mr. Toilet,

With all respect, I don't think it is any of your business what is in my contract. All I know and all you need to know is that Republic is now in violation of that contract. I guess we will let an Arbitrator decide who is right and who is wrong. Let's leave it at that.

Wow man. Take time and read a little.

You kinda make it people's business when you make wild public accusations. All the "SCUM" comments made how your contract is being willingly violated but then you won't show what parts. How can anyone be willingly violating it if they are never shown? It's a serious question. I don't think any union would want to violate the contract established by another union.

Republic is violating your contract on keeping airlines separate. They are violating our contract and the arbitrator's last decision on his view of the contract. The same arbitrator is ruling on this new grievance.

Duck, let's review...

Republic FO pay ...................$23/hr @75 hr/mo
Republic work rules................No trip guarantees, etc
Republic benefits....................my guess, OK at best
Republic retirement funding.......No DB or DC plan
Republic career advancement....None, until Midwest and Frontier

You're joking with me right? I was an regional FO and understand the program.

Really don't want to get involved in the petty bickering, but this statement is innaccurate. All airlines owned by RAH are going to be integrated. The hold up is the closing of the Frontier deal. Once that deal is in the books, we'll all be one big "happy" family.

Toilet Drip,

The IBT knows all about our contract and they know good and well they are in violation of it. That's all you need to know and all you are going to get from me.

Problem is getting it in the head of the pilots of Frontier to get ready for the "Screw Job" they have coming. The ones I have talked to remind of Delta pilots. Living in a world of their own without a care that is soon going to come crashing down thanks to the greed of Republic.

I understand why you believe that, but in the case of Frontier, the worst thing that can happen is not integrating. The scenario that could play out with no integration is if Bedford wants to keep the Airbus (likely), but wants to pay labor less to fly it. He then pits the two pilot groups against each other and the lowest bidder gets the flying. That kind of whipsaw will not happen with one list. He cannot use the current RAH pilots to get a concession out of F9 as there is not an established payscale for that size airplane.

You may hate RAH, and thats fine. In the case of F9, an integration is the only way to go.

So you're saying that because he works at a regional "He's not concerned about pay scales, work rules, benefits, retirement planning or the future of our profession". Your words.

Ergo you're saying that you weren't concerned about pay scales, work rules, benefits, retirement planing or the future of your profession.

Either A)You have to admit that you're making wild and unfounded accusations about people while speaking on their behalf without their consent. Or B)You're ever bit as guilty as anyone else and thus a hypocrite.

You have no idea what the guy wants or his future plans are. He could have the same aspirations that you did when you were at a regional. You're very quick to speak on behalf of a lot of people. Why make things up? People here keep telling everyone what others are thinking and in general they seem to always be wrong.

Guilty

B)You're ever bit as guilty as anyone else and thus a hypocrite.

I flew for Mesa, I admit my main goal was to build flight time and upgrade. If that makes me a hypocrite then change my name from "Curly" to "hypo". The only difference is I'm older and wiser.

1. I can see that TPG and BB used Republic pilots to undermine the Midwest contract negotiations.

2. That TPG, Delta and BB are going to try to use Republic pilots to undermine our profession with cheap labor.

I'm a Republic pilot now and will fight for industry average wages, benefits, work rules and retirement funding.

I think you'll find we all have more in common than previously thought. I have no doubt you've gained experience through the years and hope that everyone is integrated sooner rather than later so that experience can be voiced by means of a vote on the next contract. Don't get me wrong I want to upgrade as soon as possible but I don't want that to happen because of a newly negotiated subpar contract. I'd appreciate the leverage gained by the addition of the Midwest crews.

What was inaccurate? So are you saying that the integration will be complete prior to the grievance? Our contract has to be followed until the integration is complete. If ALPA wins the grievance most likely 1 of 3 options will happen. Either Republic will be forced to put Midwest pilots back into planes flying mainline Midwest routes or damages will be paid or the best would be both.

Who cares what the hold up is? The hold up is IBT wants to do it together. They know that that would take the longest and most advantageous to them. The IBT could integrate in order of date of merger but they are choosing not to. They just may be forced to by the arbitrator thanks to ALPA filing for arbitration.

I was simply stating the RAH contract was not being violated in regards to integration. I have no idea what language you have in your contract when it comes to the current situation.

I never said they were violating in terms of integration. IBT may not negotiating in good faith but the company isn't doing anything wrong in those terms. I said they were violating it in terms that they are required to keep the airlines separate until the integration is complete and obviously BB isn't doing that.