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1500 hour FO mins

Old 09-21-2009 | 01:05 PM
  #121  
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From: Embraer Systems Analyst
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Originally Posted by saab2000
Food for thought....

How 'bout making written tests actual tests of knowledge? Not just a bank of questions with only 3 choices where you can buy a book with the exact questions so you can memorize the answers?

The written tests in the US are not very challenging to anyone with half a brain and require no actual knowledge of the subject matter, only short-term memory of FAA questions.
That's very true but the thing is that a lot of those questions (JAA) at least some examples I've heard is they go unnecessarily in depth, ie. I heard there's like 30 questions just on the compass. Plus there is the supply and demand factor that is different around the world than in the states.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:10 PM
  #122  
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From: CRJ-200 First Officer
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Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
So what you are saying is that if I fly boxes around in a baron for 3000 hours, then fly an RJ right seat at a 121 for another 3000 hours, I will be a much better captain when I upgrade cause of my experiences over 3 years earlier.

What do you think most F/Os are doing while they sit over in the right seat all that time. Twiddling their thumbs and day dreaming? No, most of us (the good ones anyway) are learning from the guy in the left seat, whether it be from the things they do well, or the times they screw up.

I know a lot, and I am learning plenty. Hell, I've made PIC decisions for some indecisive captains that ended up saving our asses and our certificates.

And just to clear this up since I'm new, (I guess not a lot of people use sabre or have the same commands) but BSO is our airline's sign-out command in sabre/decs.
Absolutely you will be a much better captain because if you are flying that Baron full of boxes you are most likely doing it by yourself. Single pilot IFR in a small plane like that is some of the hardest flying you can do. 3000 hours will give you plenty of solo night and IMC into tiny little airports with out the facilities of larger ones. By the time you get to the highly structured environment of the regionals you will have plenty of experience of calling the shots yourself. Once at the regionals you can learn all about CRM and the 2 person crew. The regional flying will be a breeze compared to what you just survived.

You won't need to worry about having a safety net when you become a captain at the regionals because you would have spent plenty of time being your own safety net. You will be much better prepared than if you had just left ATP flight school with 250 hours and then fly 3000 hours as an FO. If you do that you have very little experience making decisions.

Learning from watching someone is not the same as learning by doing it yourself. That first hand experience of calling the shots with out a safety can't be obtained by sitting right seat at a regional.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:13 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by minimwage4
That's absolutely ridiculous. You have no PIC experience unless you sit left seat with an FO on your right side and a plane full of people that are your responsibility. Have you been given the opportunity yet to have someone trust you enough to give you pax and authority to sign for an airplane? No. And it doesn't look like it for a while by your info. Keep taking notes...
Did I say I was ready to be a Captain? NO! I said I am learning and unfortunately yes I have made a Captain's decision for him. That's what the original post was asking me wasn't it?

I personally think I need another 2 to 3 thousand hours before I would feel comfortable as captain, and fortunately my airline thinks the same way. Some airlines like MESA will upgrade way before that. I know of some guys over there that upgraded from a FO in the Dash to a Capt in the RJ200/700/900 with no time in type and 1500-2000 hours 121 experience. NOW THAT IS INSANE! They should be changing upgrade mins not entry FO mins.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:15 PM
  #124  
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So what about the guys with lets say 700 hrs, lots of xc, twin, ice conditions, and dual given?
It should be done on a person to person basis-not everyone has the same experience, isn't that what interviews are for?
A guy with 1500 hours could have turbine experience, hundreds of actual instrument, and 700 PIC while the guy sitting next to him has 1500 hours with only 100 in something other than a 172
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:21 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by N6724G
I dont know about that rick. I have a friend that has been at a regional for about 12 years now andhe is quite happy., he flies four days a week and has three weeks off. That sounds pretty goood to me.
It won't when you have a family and you miss your kids ____________

insert anything and everything

First Word
First Steps
Birthdays
Christmass or other Holiday
Graduation
First Date
First Sporting Event
First or Second anything
Wedding
First Grandchild


Life at FL390 sounds cool until you realize you've missed your life.
Ask the older guys, they will tell you that for what the job offers today,
it isn't worth it anymore.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:24 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
It won't when you have a family and you miss your kids ____________

insert anything and everything

First Word
First Steps
Birthdays
Christmass or other Holiday
Graduation
First Date
First Sporting Event
First or Second anything
Wedding
First Grandchild


Life at FL390 sounds cool until you realize you've missed your life.
Ask the older guys, they will tell you that for what the job offers today,
it isn't worth it anymore.

Not necessarily true...
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:52 PM
  #127  
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I've read every comment in this thread and here's what I think many are missing. The majority of pilots commenting here are arguing for the 1500 hour rule because of safety concerns. That's fine and I understand it completely. I don't think 300 hour pilots should be flying RJ's either.

What I think many are missing and what I have tried to point out is that there is a dollars and cents component to this proposal as well. The 1500 hour rule COULD, and I stress could, artificially hamstring airlines who are looking to expand. I know that's not the environment in which we find ourselves today, but there is going to come a time when airlines begin to expand again.

If the demand for extra flights is there, airlines are not going to want to remain artificially smaller. They are going to want to add flights to meet the demand of travelers. A hard and fast rule COULD prevent and airlines from meeting the demands of their customers. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to hire student pilots who've just soloed, but they should be allowed to hire pilots they determine can pass a checkride and operate the aircraft safely.

As for Mason32's cheap shot at me, let me say this. I graduated with a BA in both finance and economics and I minored in both Spanish and International Business. I learned to fly and instruct in a 141 school at the local airport in my free time, not from some pilot factory.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 01:55 PM
  #128  
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From: B737CA
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Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
So what you are saying is that if I fly boxes around in a baron for 3000 hours, then fly an RJ right seat at a 121 for another 3000 hours, I will be a much better captain when I upgrade cause of my experiences over 3 years earlier.

What do you think most F/Os are doing while they sit over in the right seat all that time. Twiddling their thumbs and day dreaming? No, most of us (the good ones anyway) are learning from the guy in the left seat, whether it be from the things they do well, or the times they screw up.

I know a lot, and I am learning plenty. Hell, I've made PIC decisions for some indecisive captains that ended up saving our asses and our certificates.

And just to clear this up since I'm new, (I guess not a lot of people use sabre or have the same commands) but BSO is our airline's sign-out command in sabre/decs.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

By having no PIC experience, your foundations and fundamentals as a pilot are weaker. It may not be evident to you now as an FO, but you will see it later on down the road.

As someone said, there's only so much to learn by observing. At some point, you gotta 'do' and having an airliner full of people when you first start learning about being a PIC ain't it.
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Old 09-21-2009 | 03:38 PM
  #129  
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
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Originally Posted by minimwage4
That's absolutely ridiculous. You have no PIC experience unless you sit left seat with an FO on your right side and a plane full of people that are your responsibility. Have you been given the opportunity yet to have someone trust you enough to give you pax and authority to sign for an airplane? No. And it doesn't look like it for a while by your info. Keep taking notes...
But you aren't saying that this is the ONLY way to get "PIC" time though right? I mean the key part of the PIC is the signing for and being responsible for the aircraft and the decisions required to operate it successfully right?

USMCFLYR
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Old 09-21-2009 | 05:10 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
It won't when you have a family and you miss your kids ____________

insert anything and everything

First Word
First Steps
Birthdays
Christmass or other Holiday
Graduation
First Date
First Sporting Event
First or Second anything
Wedding
First Grandchild


Life at FL390 sounds cool until you realize you've missed your life.
Ask the older guys, they will tell you that for what the job offers today,
it isn't worth it anymore.
Do you enjoy working at a regional airline?
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