1500 hour FO mins - Page 9 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#81

OldManReverend , 09-20-2009 09:09 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex81

Make the schools have more stringent requirements. Places like All ATP's, Gulfstream Academy, etc. These places are "pilot factories" and will give you a rating if you are willing to pay for it. Any place that can take you from zero hours to the right seat of an airliner in less than 12 months is not teaching you what you need to know to be safe and competent. The Colgan crash happened because the pilots lacked the basic skills required to fly an aircraft. The captain pulled back without adding power to recover from a stall for crying-out-loud.

ARE YOU SERIOUS???

Last time I checked... at ALL ATP's you had to get signed off (all except... ready? .... the ATP checkride!) And then... believe it or not... you had to take an actual checkride, WITH an examiner... and since ATP runs everything part 61, there is no "in-house" examiner to offer special treatment.

wouldn't hurt to have some information on the subject before you bash it...

Also, I'm a firm believer in the power of Knowledge. and as far as the colgan crash goes... it wasn't JUST fatigue, it wasn't JUST "low times", it wasn't JUST failed checkrides, it wasn't JUST improper stall/spin awareness. IT WAS ALL OF IT!!!! It's so amusing to watch everybody point their finger on a specific topic... or that last straw that broke the camel's back... who cares about the other 100's of factors.. anywhere from being hungry, being thirsty, problems at home, financial troubles, unfinished duties, we are all human and all of us are susceptible to errors... I just don't think 1500TT is going to eliminate that one broken link in the chain.

#82

thrustsetrj200 , 09-20-2009 09:14 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32

That is a really scary statement, and reminds me again why I don't let my family members fly on regionals... an AIRLINE is not the place to be building your 1500 hours. While I'm happy you newbies got a job and are building your time, it certainly isn't what the public expects or deserves; and many of us are concerned that what we once considered a profession has become a training ground.... the training grounds are in the right seat teaching, flying VFR 135 to build time to fly 135 charter/air taxi... the time building in flying pipeline, forestry, traffic reporting, scenic stuff...
All you folks have done is lowered the profession of airline pilot to the equivelant of bus driver, and traffic watch pilot. Good job.

By the way, the light at the end of the tunnel isn't daylight.... it's the train
coming at you full tilt. What will you do when the new law requires all new hires to have an ATP, and you current newbies to have an ATP ticket within 3 years?

You get the award for the most ignorant statment of the thread.

#83

slipped , 09-20-2009 09:25 PM

Gets Weekends Off

wow this thread went downhill quick, still lookin for some answers.

#84

xcorporate , 09-20-2009 09:39 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by thrustsetrj200

You get the award for the most ignorant statment of the thread.

I have a friend with less than a thousand hours and he's an F.O. for a regional. I'd trust him without question. I've also flown with some really high time experienced captains that have scared the sh#! out of me. It really depends on the person. Having said that I like the 1500 hour requirement, but at the same time we need to continue checking, and if need be remove the weak links that are out there flying. High time, low time no matter same checkride criteria.

#85

NWA320pilot , 09-21-2009 02:56 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by heading180

Easy for us to say it's a great idea now that most of us have in excess of 1500 hours. How would you feel about it if you had just earned your CMEL or CFI. It would seem like a very dim light at the end of the tunnel.

20 years ago a regional wouldn't even interview a candidate unless he had 2500TT and 500ME. Requiring an airline pilot to have an ATP shouldn't be a dim light but rather a goal!

Quote:

Originally Posted by N6724G

We are talking about FO's here and not Capt's right? Why does the FO need to have 2500 or 5000 hours? He isnt the PIC.

You guys talk about hours. But ithink it has more to do with competency. The military takes a young 22 year old second Lieutenanat with about 200 hours of flight time and trains him to fly F-15's and C-130's. So how does flight time equate to a better pilot? I think the military puts out some the best pilots in the world and they start off with a little over 200 hours of total time.

However I do agree that 1500 hours is a good starting place if thats what they want to do.

Because you are a crew, and decisions are made as a crew. Also the FO must be competent to assume the duties as PIC if required. Trust me it is much safer to have an exprienced competent pilot sitting in your right seat than a low time pilot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManReverend

Actually most airlines use in house instructors and APD's (basically checkairmen/examiners) who have been given the authority to give ATP and type rides in specific equipment.

#86

subrat , 09-21-2009 03:32 AM

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I know multiple capts with thousands of hours at the regionals that shouldnt even be a FO in a jet aircraft... They got threw the system because of the crappy hiring practices at the airlines.... Most interviews you dont even fly a sim!!!

#87

Thedude , 09-21-2009 03:44 AM

Are we there yet??!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWA320pilot

20 years ago a regional wouldn't even interview a candidate unless he had 2500TT and 500ME. Requiring an airline pilot to have an ATP shouldn't be a dim light but rather a goal!

Echoing what he said....It wasn't even ten years ago when 2500TT was required to even apply to most commuter jobs. There were plenty of applicants back then with those mins and we always found a way to fly. I get so tired of those that cry about no way of building any time without paying for it. Just beat the bushed and you will find flying, it might take a while (for the microwave generation) but you will find it. I see nothing wrong with 1200/200 being a min.

#88

Freightpuppy , 09-21-2009 05:21 AM

Freightmama!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks

How about acting like you're in charge and telling him how things are going to happen on your trip together?

Of course! But having to tell someone not to text or making sure they are actually reading the checklist should not even have to be mentioned....THAT is babysitting! Someone like that has no business in a 121 cockpit.

#89

Freightpuppy , 09-21-2009 05:25 AM

Freightmama!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thedude

I get so tired of those that cry about no way of building any time without paying for it. Just beat the bushed and you will find flying, it might take a while (for the microwave generation) but you will find it. I see nothing wrong with 1200/200 being a min.

That and flying anything other than a "jet" is beneath them. I remember my first 121 job was flying a Jetstream and I was so excited you'd think I was going to be flying the space shuttle. Some of these punks are so cocky and full of themselves (which I don't even know why), it's ridiculous.

#90

dimondan , 09-21-2009 05:33 AM

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Honestly, I'm sure if 121 ends up requiring 1500 tt, then time building jobs in the 135 environment are going to grow up overnight like crazy. Plus if their is a demand to have the actual ATP certificate, there is going to be a flight school somewhere that corners the market on a ticket factory for it. Demand for something like that equals money... And I like money! Just need a plane now and an examiner willing to play ball.