AA vs. Eagle vs. Chautauqua
09-27-2009, 12:04 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: I like seeing everything :)
Posts: 149
Not sure the CHQ guys will be overly friendly to the Eagle ALPA MEC, considering they want to get rid of their jobs.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
09-27-2009, 12:11 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by Phlying Phallus
We will show the Eagle pilots the same amount of "support" they have shown us.
The 9/9 letter from the MEC chair was surreal:
"It not only represents a violation of American Eagles duty to aggressively seek to increase flying opportunities and to pursue bidding on opportunities to provide additional feed to American Airlines but it also transfers existing operations away from American Eagle and the very employees who built these routes and markets. Most egregious is that some of the Eagle pilots who built this operation are still on furlough."
The irony and hypocrisy is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut through it.
The 9/9 letter from the MEC chair was surreal:
"It not only represents a violation of American Eagles duty to aggressively seek to increase flying opportunities and to pursue bidding on opportunities to provide additional feed to American Airlines but it also transfers existing operations away from American Eagle and the very employees who built these routes and markets. Most egregious is that some of the Eagle pilots who built this operation are still on furlough."
The irony and hypocrisy is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut through it.
09-27-2009, 12:27 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: A320 starboard... Arrrr
Posts: 520
Originally Posted by travelnate
Not sure the CHQ guys will be overly friendly to the Eagle ALPA MEC, considering they want to get rid of their jobs.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
09-27-2009, 05:03 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: MD-80 FO
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by rlkrutenat
We've been ready to negotiate and work with APA in the past, and have either received the "cold shoulder" or have been dismissed due to "more important" issues.
We are ready to negotiate and work with APA now, as soon as the APA picks up the phone to call EGL ALPA.
I truly believe APA will be surprised by the resolve of EGL pilots if they would only ask.
Capt. Rich Krutenat
EGL MEC Communications Chairman
We are ready to negotiate and work with APA now, as soon as the APA picks up the phone to call EGL ALPA.
I truly believe APA will be surprised by the resolve of EGL pilots if they would only ask.
Capt. Rich Krutenat
EGL MEC Communications Chairman
That's a great sound bite, but I would like to hear details of what Eagle would like to "work with" APA on and what terms Eagle would like.
I have been told from guys that directly negotiated with Eagle on the prospect of a combined seniority list that Eagle wanted DOH.
If this is not true, why would these guys lie?
How would you change things?
09-27-2009, 05:37 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by Phlying Phallus
Rich,
That's a great sound bite, but I would like to hear details of what Eagle would like to "work with" APA on and what terms Eagle would like.
I have been told from guys that directly negotiated with Eagle on the prospect of a combined seniority list that Eagle wanted DOH.
If this is not true, why would these guys lie?
How would you change things?
That's a great sound bite, but I would like to hear details of what Eagle would like to "work with" APA on and what terms Eagle would like.
I have been told from guys that directly negotiated with Eagle on the prospect of a combined seniority list that Eagle wanted DOH.
If this is not true, why would these guys lie?
How would you change things?
09-27-2009, 05:53 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: ERJ145 Captain
Posts: 473
Originally Posted by travelnate
Not sure the CHQ guys will be overly friendly to the Eagle ALPA MEC, considering they want to get rid of their jobs.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s sitting around?
I didn't think so.
Does Eagle have any more ERJ 145s on order?
I didn't think so.
If Eagle holds to their position, I can see AMR just axing routes entirely from ORD. SPI - gone. DBQ - gone. MSN - gone. AZO - gone.
Travelnate,
I'm not sure how long you've been in the business, but it's a matter of aircraft utilization, Eagle could easily cover the margin of 12 aircraft with their current fleet, just a matter of utilization and allocation.
09-27-2009, 07:30 PM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by Phlying Phallus
Rich,
That's a great sound bite, but I would like to hear details of what Eagle would like to "work with" APA on and what terms Eagle would like.
I have been told from guys that directly negotiated with Eagle on the prospect of a combined seniority list that Eagle wanted DOH.
If this is not true, why would these guys lie?
How would you change things?
That's a great sound bite, but I would like to hear details of what Eagle would like to "work with" APA on and what terms Eagle would like.
I have been told from guys that directly negotiated with Eagle on the prospect of a combined seniority list that Eagle wanted DOH.
If this is not true, why would these guys lie?
How would you change things?
A career at Eagle is not the same animal as a career at AA. Everyone understands that. However, its starting to look better and better (to me at least...I'm 39 with a wife and two kids) compared to the idea of being the most junior FO sitting reserve in JFK.
Of course, there are pilots at Eagle who have different ideas about their career expectations. Not everyone will agree. But that's the great thing about seniority. You can spend it however you like, and everyone understands how it works. Seniority rules. If you want to bid the left seat of an RJ...great. If you want to bid the right seat of a 767, great. There are ways to make it work. Usually it involves a bit of pain on all sides involved.
AA pilots are afraid of AMR farming out their flying. Scope is a big issue. It should be. AE pilots are worried about becoming furlough fodder or their 15 or 20 years not counting for anything. AMR is worried about reinventing itself and competing in a domestic landscape which has drastically changed.
I believe there is room for all three parties to meet in the middle. If we ever did, and were successful in pulling it off, our company could be a real powerhouse.
Since I think its clear that AMR managment simply cannot be trusted, I think trust needs to be built by the pilots. We need to come together to solve this.
It can happen. Our leadership needs to reach out to each other and discuss their issues and priorities in an honest dialogue.
Capt. Rich Krutenat
MEC Communications Chairman
09-27-2009, 08:08 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: I like seeing everything :)
Posts: 149
I've been in the business 13 years, with experience in regional airline planning.
If AMR wanted to extend the block hours on the ERJ's airframes to cover 11 lines (which is what I'm assuming the CHQ flying consists of), I doubt they could do it effectively. This is one reason why many regionals like Mesa, Pinnacle, ASA, get their asses handed to them on the East Coast is that the larger carriers rarely PAY for them to have an active spare at the hub to maintain operations when things go haywire.
So I stand by my statement, although I understand where Eagle is coming from - its all about negotiations. They're getting 22 more jets and AMR has to maintain the CHQ lines or pay up the ying-yang.
11 lines = 40/50 CHQ pilots that may end up on the street if Eagle gets their way?
If AMR wanted to extend the block hours on the ERJ's airframes to cover 11 lines (which is what I'm assuming the CHQ flying consists of), I doubt they could do it effectively. This is one reason why many regionals like Mesa, Pinnacle, ASA, get their asses handed to them on the East Coast is that the larger carriers rarely PAY for them to have an active spare at the hub to maintain operations when things go haywire.
So I stand by my statement, although I understand where Eagle is coming from - its all about negotiations. They're getting 22 more jets and AMR has to maintain the CHQ lines or pay up the ying-yang.
11 lines = 40/50 CHQ pilots that may end up on the street if Eagle gets their way?
09-27-2009, 08:56 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
well they can always bring back the 12 to 13 EMB135's they parked. that will cover the flying.
09-27-2009, 09:17 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: ERJ145 Captain
Posts: 473
Originally Posted by travelnate
I've been in the business 13 years, with experience in regional airline planning.
If AMR wanted to extend the block hours on the ERJ's airframes to cover 11 lines (which is what I'm assuming the CHQ flying consists of), I doubt they could do it effectively. This is one reason why many regionals like Mesa, Pinnacle, ASA, get their asses handed to them on the East Coast is that the larger carriers rarely PAY for them to have an active spare at the hub to maintain operations when things go haywire.
So I stand by my statement, although I understand where Eagle is coming from - its all about negotiations. They're getting 22 more jets and AMR has to maintain the CHQ lines or pay up the ying-yang.
11 lines = 40/50 CHQ pilots that may end up on the street if Eagle gets their way?
If AMR wanted to extend the block hours on the ERJ's airframes to cover 11 lines (which is what I'm assuming the CHQ flying consists of), I doubt they could do it effectively. This is one reason why many regionals like Mesa, Pinnacle, ASA, get their asses handed to them on the East Coast is that the larger carriers rarely PAY for them to have an active spare at the hub to maintain operations when things go haywire.
So I stand by my statement, although I understand where Eagle is coming from - its all about negotiations. They're getting 22 more jets and AMR has to maintain the CHQ lines or pay up the ying-yang.
11 lines = 40/50 CHQ pilots that may end up on the street if Eagle gets their way?
And speaking of furloughs, Eagle also has furloughs, and the contractual right to protect their current employees based on the CPA terms negotiated with AA.
If the tables were turned I would still expect the IBT to follow the same course of action AE ALPA is currently following to protect their pilots, wouldn't you? Or is it a double standard?
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